Gun fight caught on camera in Toronto - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

CaptainCrunch · 08-13-2018, 11:43 AM

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1459968

Right by a park with kids.

I don't care, if your in a gang, or previously convicted and your caught with a gun, it should be prison for life. You get caught with an unlicenses weapon, we have a nice labor farm where you can do some good. Murder someone in the commission of a crime using a gun, we toss you in the deepest darkest prison possible.

2Stonedbirds · 08-13-2018, 12:20 PM

Couple of questions:

How did these fine individuals obtain a ATT that allows them to pack handguns in Toronto?

Was this park recently converted to a approved range as per CFO regulations?

What amnesty did the RCMP provide to them to allow them to shoot from a vehicle on a roadway?

Could this unfortunate accident have been avoided if these upstanding citizens had no option of purchasing ammunition with their PAL/RPAL in the city?

Can we trace their firearms purchase back through dealer inventory records/restricted firearms registry as to collectively punish legitimate firearm dealers?

How can we severely #### with hunters/sport shooters even farther to show the average mouth breather in Toronto that we have their best interests at heart?

Please halp John Tory.

GreenLantern2814 · 08-13-2018, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1459968

Right by a park with kids.

I don't care, if your in a gang, or previously convicted and your caught with a gun, it should be prison for life. You get caught with an unlicenses weapon, we have a nice labor farm where you can do some good. Murder someone in the commission of a crime using a gun, we toss you in the deepest darkest prison possible.

I've been thinking that short term work camps could be the way forward.

Don't pick up after your dog? One month at the work camp, building the train to connect Calgary and Edmonton. 2nd offense? 2 months. Shatter a glass bottle in a public space? 2 weeks. There'd be no poop/glass on the ground in six months, and we'd have a train in 18.

I look like a crazy person when I take my dog to the river because all I do is wander up and down the beach picking up broken glass and cursing about work camps under my breath.

Having a gun fight by a playground is more of a max security thing to me - I'm usually anti-imprisonment, but if you're at that point in your life, #### both parties, rot in jail.

Boblobla · 08-13-2018, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Couple of questions:

How did these fine individuals obtain a ATT that allows them to pack handguns in Toronto?

Was this park recently converted to a approved range as per CFO regulations?

What amnesty did the RCMP provide to them to allow them to shoot from a vehicle on a roadway?

Could this unfortunate accident have been avoided if these upstanding citizens had no option of purchasing ammunition with their PAL/RPAL in the city?

Can we trace their firearms purchase back through dealer inventory records/restricted firearms registry as to collectively punish legitimate firearm dealers?

How can we severely #### with hunters/sport shooters even farther to show the average mouth breather in Toronto that we have their best interests at heart?

Please halp John Tory.

You have to be fking joking...

llwhiteoutll · 08-13-2018, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1459968

Right by a park with kids.

I don't care, if your in a gang, or previously convicted and your caught with a gun, it should be prison for life. You get caught with an unlicenses weapon, we have a nice labor farm where you can do some good. Murder someone in the commission of a crime using a gun, we toss you in the deepest darkest prison possible.

We already have many laws on the books that make things like this illegal. It is illegal to be in possession of a firearm without a license, it's illegal to conceal one, it's illegal to shoot at other people with one.

What needs to be done is to disrupt the supply that is feeding the gangs, which means stepping up border enforcement and sentencing those who traffic firearms to actual prison time. Gangs also need to be targeted on a social level, early intervention with at-risk youth and measures targeting the root causes of gang affiliation.

The courts are continually striking down mandatory minimum sentences and there are studies showing that they don't actually act as a deterrent, so why bother wasting time and effort there.

CaptainCrunch · 08-13-2018, 12:40 PM

Sure, I don't disagree, except in terms of the concept of mandatory minimums, but honestly right now I'm not feeling particularly fair and even about gun crimes or the people that do them right now.

topfiverecords · 08-13-2018, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Murder someone, we toss you in the deepest darkest prison possible.

fyp

GreenLantern2814 · 08-13-2018, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Couple of questions:

How did these fine individuals obtain a ATT that allows them to pack handguns in Toronto?

Was this park recently converted to a approved range as per CFO regulations?

What amnesty did the RCMP provide to them to allow them to shoot from a vehicle on a roadway?

Could this unfortunate accident have been avoided if these upstanding citizens had no option of purchasing ammunition with their PAL/RPAL in the city?

Can we trace their firearms purchase back through dealer inventory records/restricted firearms registry as to collectively punish legitimate firearm dealers?

How can we severely #### with hunters/sport shooters even farther to show the average mouth breather in Toronto that we have their best interests at heart?

Please halp John Tory.

Oh look, a bad faith argument.

2Stonedbirds · 08-13-2018, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Oh look, a bad faith argument.

If the city, or the mayors office had proposals on the table that would legitimately curb what is happening in that city, such as what llwhiteoutll has outlined, then I would take their argument for furthering restrictions on the law abiding in good faith. Since they cannot or will not take measures to actually slow down this rash of gun crime in the city, then their proposals are nothing more than ear candy for the easily swayed who hold a vote in their hand. Political capital if you will.

More needs to be done in terms of crime prevention for youth, and tighter enforcement of smuggling. Otherwise these sort of events will not slow down, as these people have no respect for the law, and more laws aimed at those who already respect the law are nothing more than platitudes for the masses

llwhiteoutll · 08-13-2018, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Oh look, a bad faith argument.

The argument that a ban on handgun sales in Toronto or a ban "handgun ammunition" sales would have any effect on the illegal use of hanguns by gangs is also a poor argument. Yet many people don't seem to have an issue with their elected representatives clamoring for it.

It seems that as of late, the various governments have been more interested in giving the appearance of action rather than taking meaningful steps to curb gang violence.

2Stonedbirds · 08-13-2018, 01:11 PM

Yeah, the "we should ban handgun ammo" argument from Tory is brilliant as it illustrates perfectly why hes not qualified to make any decision related to firearm regulation.

nik- · 08-13-2018, 01:16 PM

Only idiots stick to this "total success or any attempt at control is dumb" argument.

2Stonedbirds · 08-13-2018, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

Only idiots stick to this "total success or any attempt at control is dumb" argument.

Only idiots think banning the sale of regulated and tracked items for licensed individuals in a city stops the use of smuggled, unregulated contraband by unlicensed individuals.

llwhiteoutll · 08-13-2018, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

Only idiots stick to this "total success or any attempt at control is dumb" argument.

No one is saying that total success must be a condition of any actions, simply that any actions must have a realistic chance at impacting the problem. A such, I'd ask the following (keeping in mind that the concern has mostly been around handguns):

Which of the existing portions of the Firearms Act do you feel have failed and allowed the current gang violence to propagate?

Which proposals by either the federal government or Toronto city council do you feel would impact gang violence?

nik- · 08-13-2018, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Only idiots think banning the sale of regulated and tracked items for licensed individuals in a city stops the use of smuggled, unregulated contraband by unlicensed individuals.

No one really thinks having tough gun control laws prevents this completely.

So, I agree.

nik- · 08-13-2018, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

No one is saying that total success must be a condition of any actions, simply that any actions must have a realistic chance at impacting the problem. A such, I'd ask the following (keeping in mind that the concern has mostly been around handguns):

Which of the existing portions of the Firearms Act do you feel have failed and allowed the current gang violence to propagate?

Which proposals by either the federal government or Toronto city council do you feel would impact gang violence?

I'm actually pretty comfortable with our gun laws as they are.

Oling_Roachinen · 08-13-2018, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

The courts are continually striking down mandatory minimum sentences and there are studies showing that they don't actually act as a deterrent, so why bother wasting time and effort there.

Even if they don't act as a deterrent, what about recidivism rate? Somewhat stands to reason that if you have a career criminal get busted with a crime and gets a light sentence he'll be back on the streets a lot sooner if he was forced to spend the next 20 years in jail due to a mandatory minimum.

burn_this_city · 08-13-2018, 02:34 PM

Severe mandatory minimum for possession of an illegal/stolen/imported handgun might make these guys weigh carrying vs spending 10 years in prison. Right now it looks like the max is 5-10 years depending on the offense.

CliffFletcher · 08-13-2018, 02:45 PM

Fixing the issue of gangs is hard. So let's make more laws about firearms instead.

Oling_Roachinen · 08-13-2018, 02:58 PM

https://www.reddeeradvocate.com/news...-bag-went-off/

Quote:

Olsen, who has been in custody since his arrest Feb. 6, 2017, has 106 prior criminal convictions dating back to his youth.
...
Olsen was given credit for 23 months and 10 days in custody using a formula of a 1.5 days credit per day, leaving him with 30 months and 20 days to serve

Man with 106 criminal convictions accidentally kills single mother of two when he throws down his illegally sawed off shotgun. Will spend under 4 years in jail. Assuming anyone of those other 106 convictions included firearms, he shouldn't have been out in the first place.