2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[agulati]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I would love for some rumors just so we can stop tearing apart each Flames player piece by piece.

Can we talk about Gio's age and contract? Let us talk about Gio's age and contract.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Lindholms worst year is better than Bennetts best.

In terms of ice time?

Yes, yes it is.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

My point though is that he has to fit into how the team is built now and that means if he doesn't score as many points because he doesn't get the icetime because they have better options, that's just the way it's gotta be.

He's not going to beat out a legitimate 2nd line talent for that icetime.

Frolik is probably gone and maybe Bennett gets that icetime because of the tkachuk cap crunch and maybe bennett scores 35 or 40 points. If that's the case I think it's probably because the situation exists where the team isn't good enough and then what does Bennett scoring those points done but potentially price him out of calgary on his next deal.

I really like Bennett and i want him to be successful, but I also want the flames to be successful. I think for both to find success means bennett playing 10-14 minutes a night.

Totally agree, Flash. Again, just wishing I could hop in the time machine and prevent GG from being hired.

Benny when he came into the league had so much confidence and creativity. We see that player in glimpses now, and not nearly enough for him to push realistically into the top 6.

But that skill is there. He needs more confidence, and I think that comes with playing with better players.

I'm not writing him off just yet from being able to be an impact offensive player.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Who cares how much they’re paid? Backlund and Ryan are excellent players and are worth that money. Good teams are 4 great centres deep. Also, they make $8.4 million, not $10.

+1 for the correct math, -1 for 'who cares how much they're paid'.

[Bingo]

Yeah you can't pencil Bennett into a top six spot. He had good underlying numbers last year, numbers that suggest he could still be untapped, but how often can we hope that before you just take him for what he is.

Could he still pop to some degree? For sure he can. But not smart to assume he will.

The team needs a better sixth forward. They are welcome to aim higher and get the same through trickle down, but they need to acquire a player that is better than Frolik and Bennett and then see what happens.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah you can't pencil Bennett into a top six spot. He had good underlying numbers last year, numbers that suggest he could still be untapped, but how often can we hope that before you just take him for what he is.

Could he still pop to some degree? For sure he can. But not smart to assume he will.

The team needs a better sixth forward. They are welcome to aim higher and get the same through trickle down, but they need to acquire a player that is better than Frolik and Bennett and then see what happens.

To play devil's advocate here:

Do we actually need an upgrade in the top six based on last year's results?

The playoffs were a poor showing by the team on aggregate. But, to his credit, Bennett was clearly the best forward by a mile.

An indictment on the other guys, no question, but Bennett was successful in the playoffs by any measure, despite playing 3rd/4th line minutes.

The regular season Flames scored almost at will for the majority of the year with a rotating cast on the 2nd line RW. What is the harm in having Bennett there for 25-30 games to see what a bit of confidence could do? It's not like Frolik blew the doors off with the same opportunity, and the potential upside of post season Sam becoming regular season Sam has to be considered.

Their issue is not with scoring, as they finished top 5 in that regard. It is with compete and will in tighter checking games during the playoffs.

[IliketoPuck]

To further that point, our top 6 last year boasted 4x 70+ point players (5 if Gio is included). We all saw the stats throughout the year that the Flames were the first team to have that type of balanced offense since the early 90's Pens.

I just don't see what a player like Frolik brings that Bennett can't. And I don't necessarily agree that we need to upgrade our top 6.

[GioforPM]

Bennett was great in the POs. But part of that was looser offensive zone penalty calling. He did some of the same things that got called in the regular seasons he's played in, and that he got roasted for.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

To further that point, our top 6 last year boasted 4x 70+ point players (5 if Gio is included). We all saw the stats throughout the year that the Flames were the first team to have that type of balanced offense since the early 90's Pens.

I just don't see what a player like Frolik brings that Bennett can't. And I don't necessarily agree that we need to upgrade our top 6.

Frolik is a better/smarter player than Bennett....no more and no less. Offensively better and miles ahead defensively.

Now with ages taken into account, last years kerfuffle with Walsh, and needing cap room, then maybe you try and put Bennett in Froliks role but you want that role to be 3rd or 4th line ideally.

Lets not forget, Sam had many a turn in Froliks spot with Backlund last year and was not a very good fit(hence the Walsh tweet iirc)...so its not like it is some magic elixir and we all know what that looked like.

He was tried on the top line...failed.

Tried on line 2...failed.

Found a niche role on line 3 late in the year.......so...3rd liner? 27 pts is a 3rd line player offensive output in this league. And enough of the excessive PP time for him...he is simply unable to bring anything in that regard.

Simple.

Its not like he wont be given a bigger role if he shows he deserves it.

[GioforPM]

Frolik is probably no longer a second liner. Bennett has to be a tad better to be one IMO. I'd love a real responsible first line RW that then allows Lindholm to play 2C, in which case Bennett might just benefit and blossom on his wing.

As it is, I'm not comfortable with moving Lindholm off the first line and replacing him with a pure offensive guy. The regular season results will be good, but they will really struggle against opposing top lines, especially in the POs.

ETA: Someone like Niederrater on the top line would be awesome.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Found a niche role on line 3 late in the year.......so...3rd liner? 27 pts is a 3rd line player offensive output in this league. And enough of the excessive PP time for him...he is simply unable to bring anything in that regard.

There has been plenty of hyperbole when it comes to Bennett, you and GrantEV are the yin and yang of the debate. One sees him as trash, the other as a god (how's that for hyperbole! ) but excessive PP time? Not really true.

Minute and half per game, putting him just above Austin Czarnik. 93 ranks 8th for PP TOI per game, ranking him 8th on the Flames. That's essentially clean up crew at the end of each powerplay. After the big four forwards of Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm and Tkachuk it's a toss up to who sees him. Easily make the case that a guy like Neal, who sees more PP time than Sam should have his time cut first.

Unfortunately though, who do you promote? Only Andrew Mangiapane made a case for a legit promotion next year. Perhaps Dube surprises.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

+1 for the correct math, -1 for 'who cares how much they're paid'.

Well I mean as long as they're worth those salaries then why are we singling them out? Backlund and Ryan are worth what they're paid so why do we care about those numbers in comparison to the less valuable players on the team? Being able to run four excellent centres deep is an asset and we shouldn't be assigning arbitrary "ideal values" for the salary of a fourth-line centre. You can do that, but then you'd likely get a guy who's way worse than Derek Ryan. The salaries that we need to actually care about are the ones that can be cut to actively put the team in a better spot. Cutting Backlund and Ryan from the team makes the Flames worse, but do the Flames really need to be paying millions to replacement-level players like Stone, Czarnik, and Jankowski? Probably not. Those are the salaries that need to be cared about more.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Rando

There has been plenty of hyperbole when it comes to Bennett, you and GrantEV are the yin and yang of the debate. One sees him as trash, the other as a god (how's that for hyperbole! ) but excessive PP time? Not really true.

Minute and half per game, putting him just above Austin Czarnik. 93 ranks 8th for PP TOI per game, ranking him 8th on the Flames. That's essentially clean up crew at the end of each powerplay. After the big four forwards of Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm and Tkachuk it's a toss up to who sees him. Easily make the case that a guy like Neal, who sees more PP time than Sam should have his time cut first.

Unfortunately though, who do you promote? Only Andrew Mangiapane made a case for a legit promotion next year. Perhaps Dube surprises.

Which was WAY to much for what he produced. Neal should not have gotten PP time either..at least after it was clear his head was no where it needed to be.

And i sure as hell dont see the guy as trash...in fact several times i have stated we need another guy like him in the line up. Love his style of game.

He just isnt anything more than a 3rd line player though, based on a very large sample of work i might add. Which is what i was responding to when it was said Bennet "was deserving" of a top 6 spot.

Context man...it matters.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Which was WAY to much for what he produced. Neal should not have gotten PP time either..at least after it was clear his head was no where it needed to be.

Context man...it matters.

Context matters, for sure! Little odd you end your post by ignoring the context around Sam's pp time however.

He's 8th on the team for forwards, clean up crew in the final face-off of the powerplay. Would love to see a guy like Mangiapane or Dube step up and be a threat on the second unit, pulling time from Neal and others. To call Sam's PP time excessive lacks context about the other players and options on the team.

The only other regular options were Jankowski or Frolik. Ignoring the fact neither are exciting PP options, they're much better used on the PK where the excel.

Context man, it matters!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rando

Context matters, for sure! Little odd you end your post by ignoring the context around Sam's pp time however.

He's 8th on the team for forwards, clean up crew in the final face-off of the powerplay. Would love to see a guy like Mangiapane or Dube step up and be a threat on the second unit, pulling time from Neal and others. To call Sam's PP time excessive lacks context about the other players and options on the team.

The only other regular options were Jankowski or Frolik. Ignoring the fact neither are exciting PP options, they're much better used on the PK where the excel.

Context man, it matters!

It matters a bit compared to Czarnik as well. Sam had a little more PP per game than him, but he had a ton more games, so a lot more overall PP time. Neal and Bennett were mostly on at the same time anyway, so comparing those two against each other isn't really accurate. They weren't stealing each other's time.

It will definitely be an opportunity for Mangiapane or Dube or both. But I'm still hoping Neal does what he says he is going to do. And that Bennett improves like he probably can.

[Vinny01]

If the Flames do not acquire a top 6 forward via trade or free agency this summer the top candidates would be
1. Neal (if the Real Deal can make a comeback)
2. Bennett (starting to change his game a little more to be effective in the NHL he has potential)
3. Mangiapane (kid was looking like a 25 goal scorer towards the end of the season)
4. Dube (highest upside of any forward not currently on the team)
5. Frolik (I think he is as good as gone but if no takers he could keep his old spot)

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Frolik is a better/smarter player than Bennett....no more and no less. Offensively better and miles ahead defensively.

Now with ages taken into account, last years kerfuffle with Walsh, and needing cap room, then maybe you try and put Bennett in Froliks role but you want that role to be 3rd or 4th line ideally.

Lets not forget, Sam had many a turn in Froliks spot with Backlund last year and was not a very good fit(hence the Walsh tweet iirc)...so its not like it is some magic elixir and we all know what that looked like.

He was tried on the top line...failed.

Tried on line 2...failed.

Found a niche role on line 3 late in the year.......so...3rd liner? 27 pts is a 3rd line player offensive output in this league. And enough of the excessive PP time for him...he is simply unable to bring anything in that regard.

Simple.

Its not like he wont be given a bigger role if he shows he deserves it.

Ok, fair.

However, if Bennett brings even 75% of the compete level from the playoffs to that line next year, how do you not give him the opportunity? He had a point per game in the playoffs, and was a big time factor whenever he was on the ice.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by agulati

Can we talk about Gio's age and contract? Let us talk about Gio's age and contract.

Don't get me wrong, I think he is a pretty awesome player. However, unless the Flames feel they can really make a serious run next season, why not trade him when his value is all-time high? We missed out on the return for Iginla.. so it would be nice to get some nice assets back for Giordano.

Once again, just a thought as I don't really want to trade Gio either and want the Flames to go all-in next season.

If the Flames can return Young Top 6 Player+Young Top 4 Dman for Giordano, is that enough? In other words, would you trade Giordano for a package like Lindholm and Hanifin last season?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Rando

Context matters, for sure! Little odd you end your post by ignoring the context around Sam's pp time however.

He's 8th on the team for forwards, clean up crew in the final face-off of the powerplay. Would love to see a guy like Mangiapane or Dube step up and be a threat on the second unit, pulling time from Neal and others. To call Sam's PP time excessive lacks context about the other players and options on the team.

The only other regular options were Jankowski or Frolik. Ignoring the fact neither are exciting PP options, they're much better used on the PK where the excel.

Context man, it matters!

Right...by the end of the year. At the end of January he was pretty much on par with guys like Backlund. It was absurd.

Frolik who had less PP time than Jankowski, Hathaway, Dube and Czarnik would have been a FAR better choice than all of them including Bennett. And no, he didnt get a whole lot of PK time either.

I agree a guy like Mangiapane stepping into that role would be a big boost for this team.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Don't get me wrong, I think he is a pretty awesome player. However, unless the Flames feel they can really make a serious run next season, why not trade him when his value is all-time high? We missed out on the return for Iginla.. so it would be nice to get some nice assets back for Giordano.

Once again, just a thought as I don't really want to trade Gio either and want the Flames to go all-in next season.

If the Flames can return Young Top 6 Player+Young Top 4 Dman for Giordano, is that enough? In other words, would you trade Giordano for a package like Lindholm and Hanifin last season?

I would guess if the Flames see themselves as legit cup contenders (I assume they do) then we won’t be trading the reigning Norris Trophy winner. Iginla is not a comparable. They kept Iggy when fighting for the last playoff spot not a contending team full of 20 something star players.

If the Flames could get 2 recent top 5 picks then I would do it. I couldn’t imagine a team making a deal like that for a 36 year old. Unless this team shifts to full rebuild which is unlikely I think Gio ends his contract and career in Calgary