1 killed and 1 wounded on set of Alec Baldwin movie

[Itse]

Internet has some interesting stories supposedly coming from the ex crew members. I can't verify them of course.

They claim the set had no actual armorer, just normal props people, that the prop master had shot himself in the foot the previous day, that the set had no medic, and that someone had taken the gun in question off set to do some shooting the previous weekend and forgotten to take out the bullets after.

Which if true would mean that at least one person on set was the type that would leave a loaded gun among prop guns on movie set, and that someone responsible for the guns would have had to pick up a gun loaded with unknown bullets, go "oh these are probably blanks" and just hand it to Baldwin without making sure. On a set where firearms accidents had already happened.

No wonder crew had been leaving the set (in part) because of safety reasons.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Meh, it's just formality. Everyone knows that accidents are sometimes accidental and sometimes caused by mistakes/recklessness/undue car etc. Almost every car accident was someone ****ing up, but we still call them accidents and then they're investigated and charges are laid if applicable. Nothing to get worked up over.

Car “accidents” are officially called collisions, literally because the term “accident” implies no one’s to blame.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its usually a complete no brainer with gun safety that before you had a gun off to someone you ensure its safe, no round in the chamber safety on.



It seems weird that probably multiple people handled the weapon and then handed it to Baldwin and said the gun was cold.



It was a revolver, its pretty easy to inspect the chambers.

[Azure]

From what I've read 'live' round doesn't actually mean an actual bullet, but live in the sense of the blank or fake round was ready to shoot. Also, generally before scenes, the gun would be verified and placed into the scene with the armorer declaring 'live gun on scene' so everyone is aware.

I would say there is virtually no chance that there is even actual ammo on set, no chance that someone was screwing around with the weapon, and no chance that someone randomly slipped in an actual bullet and handed it off. So therefore Baldwin was handed a weapon that was 'live', and he mishandled and screwed up. If so, there should be hell to pay.

There are been millions of gun scenes filmed without issue, and given what we have heard so far about this set, it sure seems like it was a massive screwup and outright negligence. Also sure doesn't look good for someone who is extremely anti-gun to have an 'accident' with a firearm he obviously doesn't know how to handle properly, especially if he was the producer & senior actor on set. There are procedures in place for a reason so this stuff doesn't happen, ever. Every firearm should be considered loaded, and IS considered loaded by the armorers, which is why the procedures should always be followed.

[Azure]

Sure seem like they're going with the actual bullet story here which makes it even worse.

The shot hit cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in the chest, according to the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office. She died of her wounds and Souza, who was behind her, was injured but later released from the hospital.

Just hours before the incident on the New Mexico set of "Rust", a low-budget Western, several crew members quit in protest at what they saw as poor working conditions, according to multiple news outlets.

The Los Angeles Times reported that last week Baldwin's stunt double accidentally fired two rounds with a prop firearm after being told it was "cold", an industry term meaning a weapon is not loaded with ammunition, including blanks. At least one employee complained to a production manager about gun safety on set, the newspaper reported, citing unnamed crew members.

https://www.reuters.com/business/med...source=twitter

[CaptainCrunch]

No live round is more about having something with propellant that can be fired whether its blank or not.



Obviously we need more information, but it just sounds so sloppy and negligent.



There will be hell to pay, especially considering other events on that set, and Baldwin being one of the producers, also the director is going to face hell too even though he was wounded.



Even when we were using blanks in the military, gun safety was strictly enforced and you didn't screw around with them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sure seem like they're going with the actual bullet story here which makes it even worse.



https://www.reuters.com/business/med...source=twitter

And that's what was questioning to me, if the director was behind her and wounded after it went through her chest. Even if you went up and put a pistol with a blank round against a person's chest and pulled the trigger, the wadding isn't traveling through the body, and the gas is going to be difused.


If this was live round and he was told it was cold, the armorer is in huge trouble. But Baldwin should be seriously questioned, you don't accept a weapon and not do a basic safety check of it, that's just basic gun safety 101.

[Azure]

That is my point. The two people who were shot should not even have been close to being in the line of fire. Any shred of gun safety (and brainpower which Baldwin apparently was lacking here) should teach you to treat every weapon, including prop guns as being loaded, use proper muzzle discipline and DO NOT screw around.

At the end of the day if there was a live bullet slipped in, someone has hell to pay, but regardless the only way those two people were shot is if Baldwin was screwing around.

[afc wimbledon]

Every story about this shoot was they were in a desperate rush to film quickly without breaks as the money was tight, they unfortunatly weren't stopping to check anything

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Every story about this shoot was they were in a desperate rush to film quickly without breaks as the money was tight, they unfortunatly weren't stopping to check anything

Every armorer will tell you that they work long hours, everything is a rush, and the actors are not always trained properly.

A 2 min course on gun safety should teach you where to aim the muzzle.

Hint, not in the direction of the people working on set.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Car “accidents” are officially called collisions, literally because the term “accident” implies no one’s to blame.

Not at all. Accident means it was not done intenionally.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Every armorer will tell you that they work long hours, everything is a rush, and the actors are not always trained properly.

A 2 min course on gun safety should teach you where to aim the muzzle.

Hint, not in the direction of the people working on set.

I suspect this set was levels worse than usual

[Itse]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I suspect this set was levels worse than usual

The set had already had accidents with guns before this one, and much of the crew had left because of safety issues. That's just the confirmed stuff, not the rumours which are even worse.

It sounds like the set was pretty far from normal.

[Ben_in_Canada]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Keep seeing the term "accident" being used to describe what happened.
There is no such thing as an accident with firearms. Someone ####ed up.

Yeah, even in the firearms community we don't say accident when there is a discharge.
It is a ND, a negligent discharge.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Not at all. Accident means it was not done intenionally.

Someone never took driver’s Ed.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Not at all. Accident means it was not done intenionally.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Someone never took driver’s Ed.

Or seen 'Hot Fuzz?'

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Someone never took driver’s Ed.

What is the legal definition of accident?

an unexpected usually sudden event that occurs without intent or volition although sometimes through carelessness, unawareness, ignorance, or a combination of causes and that produces an unfortunate result (as an injury) for which the affected party may be entitled to relief under the law

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

What is the legal definition of accident?

an unexpected usually sudden event that occurs without intent or volition although sometimes through carelessness, unawareness, ignorance, or a combination of causes and that produces an unfortunate result (as an injury) for which the affected party may be entitled to relief under the law

I was replying to a post that specifically mentions car accidents.

A “car accident” is not a legal definition.

They are called car collisions, not car accidents.

No police officer would refer to a collision as an accident.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

No police officer would refer to a collision as an accident.

Motor Vehicle Collision, or MVC...

<.< >.>

[SebC]

The "no such thing as a car/gun accident" thing is a rhetorical argument, not a semantic one.