2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would assume Marner coming in would mean Gaudreau being moved in a different deal. The average height and weight of the Avalanche is identical to the Flames and the Penguins are even smaller. The killer way to build teams is to have a lot of high level skill as the size approach is somewhat dated.

Marner is a good player. That isn't what is in dispute here.

However, the idea is to build a team. We have a Marner. We need centers, we need speed and physicality.

Trading Tkachuk for Marner just means we need about 3 more big deals in order to build a more balanced team. Why not just go straight to building the more balanced team, instead of taking a step in the wrong direction, just to acquire Marner?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

LOL LW is not going to be an issue for this organization. Marner is right winger with RHS which is something that has eluded this team for a long time.

Really? How so? Assuming Mangi stays on second line RW who are your top 2 LW? Dube and Looch? Brutal.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Sutter builds at center. The ONLY available star center and of course its a maybe, is Eichel. And he scored just 2 goals last year!!! Even Monahan had a better season. I defy anyone to find a better center than we have now on the trade market. They exist however are simply not available.

Many of the best also have NMC or NTCs. FWIW all you Backlund haters can't seem to wrap your heads around his NTC. Tampa cap problem is almost everyone there has a contract clause for example.

Eichel is still the only player worth trading a Tkachuk for. Other than that trading Tkachuk is a win for the other team.

Honestly...Phillip Danault looked pretty impressive in that Mon-Tor series. I’ve always heard he was an excellent shut down center and he found a way to neutralize Matthews and Marner. The 2 combined for 1 goal, 9 points in 14 total games? I think I’d honestly consider trading Monahan for a talented right winger, sign Danault and play that guy with Danault.

Than the Flames could walk into the regular season/playoffs with 2 shutdown centers that can contribute offensively and a top scoring 1st line. Management just needs to build a 4th line that isn’t offensively inept we might be ok. Not necessarily ideal, but it’s the type of strategy that would work for Sutter.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Really? How so? Assuming Mangi stays on second line RW who are your top 2 LW? Dube and Looch? Brutal.

In a league where 60-70% of all players are left handed you take a right hand shot and run. Also where did I say Gaudreau was being moved for a bag of pucks? Obviously a quality player would come back. This is silly talk.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

In a league where 60-70% of all players are left handed you take a right hand shot and run. Also where did I say Gaudreau was being moved for a bag of pucks? Obviously a quality player would come back. This is silly talk.

Don't mind him, he's Gaudreau biggest defender here. Can't see the forest through the trees and everything is blind defense when Gaudreaus name pops up.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Marner is a good player. That isn't what is in dispute here.

However, the idea is to build a team. We have a Marner. We need centers, we need speed and physicality.

Trading Tkachuk for Marner just means we need about 3 more big deals in order to build a more balanced team. Why not just go straight to building the more balanced team, instead of taking a step in the wrong direction, just to acquire Marner?

The team is deficient at RW and adequate at center. Unfortunately the organization is in win now mode so long term decision making isn't high priority. Centers are overpriced. PLD really isn't that great and look at how many teams were interested. What center can you bring in from another team that's going to move the needle for a win-now team? You think Sam Reinhart would have a bigger impact than Marner? I don't.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

In a league where 60-70% of all players are left handed you take a right hand shot and run. Also where did I say Gaudreau was being moved for a bag of pucks? Obviously a quality player would come back. This is silly talk.

It's silly talk because you are suggesting a big trade to acquire an asset that we already have, meaning it would take a couple more big trades to fix.

Trading stars is extremely difficult. Doing it 3 times in succession is never going to happen.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The team is deficient at RW and adequate at center. Unfortunately the organization is in win now mode so long term decision making isn't high priority. Centers are overpriced. PLD really isn't that great and look at how many teams were interested. What center can you bring in from another team that's going to move the needle for a win-now team? You think Sam Reinhart would have a bigger impact than Marner? I don't.

Nice false dichotomy - who said anything about Reinhart?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Nice false dichotomy - who said anything about Reinhart?

He's was playing center for the Sabres at a decent level to end the season and I used him as an example of a player that may be available. You said we need centers not me. Tell me where that's coming from? Eichel is going to have a lineup of interested teams and maybe the Flames can pull that off but if they don't it's pretty grim after that.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's silly talk because you are suggesting a big trade to acquire an asset that we already have, meaning it would take a couple more big trades to fix.

Trading stars is extremely difficult. Doing it 3 times in succession is never going to happen.

You are under the assumption Gaudreau is going to re-sign?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He's was playing center for the Sabres at a decent level to end the season and I used him as an example of a player that may be available. You said we need centers not me. Tell me where that's coming from? Eichel is going to have a lineup of interested teams and maybe the Flames can pull that off but if they don't it's pretty grim after that.

I don't know where a C is going to come from, and have not proposed any trades because I think they are a waste of time.

My argument is a straight-forward one: if we are going to make a blockbuster trade for a star player, Marner should not be the target because the Flames are too small and too soft with their key players already, and adding a player like Marner, who is more like Gaudreau than anyone else in the league, isn't the answer.

Saying 'who else would you trade for?' doesn't change that fact.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You are under the assumption Gaudreau is going to re-sign?

I have no idea, I am not in communication with him or his agent.

I expect that he will be moved if he isn't going to sign. But if I were to guess at this point, I would probably lean towards re-sign.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

FWIW Marner has a higher PPG in the playoffs than noted playoff stud Sam Bennett.

Is that even a fair comparison given how many minutes Marner plays compared to Sam? In terms of efficiency, it’s not even close. Sam Bennett adds incredible value in the playoffs per minute than what Marner does. Marner’s performance in game 7 was about as bad as it gets considering the narrative going in. Not surprised at all to see the trade Mitch Marner stuff. 18 straight playoff games without a goal spanning 3 first round series exit? Absolutely unacceptable for an $11M forward.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The average height and weight of the Avalanche is identical to the Flames and the Penguins are even smaller. The killer way to build teams is to have a lot of high level skill as the size approach is somewhat dated.

Are they?

Their 1st line is normally Landeskog (6'1, 215) MacKinnon (6'0, 200), and Rantanen (6'4, 215). Their second line is usually Saad (6'1, 206), Kadri (6'0, 192), Burakovsky (6'3, 201). Third line is usually Jost (5'11, 187), Compher (6'0, 190), Donskoi (6'0, 190). Fourth line is usually Calvert (5'11, 186), Bellamare (6'0, 198), Nichushkin (6'4, 210).

That's not just a team with high skill, that's a team with good size as well. What more, their size isn't skewed in the lineup by having a couple of big bodies like Lucic and Ritchie who can't really do much. They don't have any huge guys, but they also don't have any really small guys like the Flames. Most importantly, all their guys can skate and can play physical with the possible exception of Jost. Colorado is bigger and faster than us and they show it every time we play them.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't know where a C is going to come from, and have not proposed any trades because I think they are a waste of time.

My argument is a straight-forward one: if we are going to make a blockbuster trade for a star player, Marner should not be the target because the Flames are too small and too soft with their key players already, and adding a player like Marner, who is more like Gaudreau than anyone else in the league, isn't the answer.

Saying 'who else would you trade for?' doesn't change that fact.

If you think they are a waste of time why are you in the thread critiquing proposals? You don't line Marner. I get it. I just don't agree the Flames are too small or soft. They just lack speed and elite skill.

[Enoch Root]

Colorado's best players have good size and tenacity.

The Flames' best players do not, so they are supplemented with Lucic and Ritchie and Leivo

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If you think they are a waste of time why are you in the thread critiquing proposals? You don't line Marner. I get it. I just don't agree the Flames are too small or soft. They just lack elite skill.

I really like Marner.

I just don't think he is the answer to the Flames' roster questions.

[ForeverFlameFan]

You only acquire Marner if you don’t have Gaudreau. If we have Gaudreau then there’s no point in having both. Very similar players, both first line wingers.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would assume Marner coming in would mean Gaudreau being moved in a different deal. The average height and weight of the Avalanche is identical to the Flames and the Penguins are even smaller. The killer way to build teams is to have a lot of high level skill as the size approach is somewhat dated.

Is it though? St Louis just won the Cup in 2019 by being one of the heaviest teams in the league. Dallas also gave the Flames a butt kicking last season being the same type of team as St Louis.

In my identity rant earlier in the season, I mentioned that the Flames really need to pick an identity. Personally, I like the idea of building a speed team, but I’m also perfectly fine with building a heavy team as well. The Flames just need to pick a direction and go with it.

I do agree that the Flames need a high level of skill, that to me is non negotiable. But also being able to out will your opponent has been proven to be quite effective. Being the most skilled team like a Tampa Bay is probably going to be the most difficult and most expensive method, so I’m not even sure that direction is all that feasible.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Is that even a fair comparison given how many minutes Marner plays compared to Sam? In terms of efficiency, it’s not even close. Sam Bennett adds incredible value in the playoffs per minute than what Marner does. Marner’s performance in game 7 was about as bad as it gets considering the narrative going in. Not surprised at all to see the trade Mitch Marner stuff. 18 straight playoff games without a goal spanning 3 first round series exit? Absolutely unacceptable for an $11M forward.

It was mainly a snarky joke. Marner is not a shooter though - that's Mackinnon.

If you don't want to compare to Bennett, Marner's PO PPG is almost identical to Brad Marchand's over their careers (and at this point in his career, Marchand was way way below Marner in PPG in the post season).

And you sure don't want to compare Marner's PO production to Gaudreau.