2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hoe does Eichel get cleared to play when the issue which put him on LTIR was not addressed in the offseason (and is not a “gets better with rest” injury).

He won't but he still needs to show up so they don't have any ammunition against him...

Should Eichel fail his physical, the Sabres would be left with the option of placing him on injured reserve or long-term injured reserve because the injury is hockey related. Had Eichel elected to not report for camp, the Sabres would have had the option to suspend the player.

If he refused to report, they could potentially threaten to suspend him without pay unless he agreed to get the surgery they want.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I think Eichel will be a Sabre this season.
I also think he will light it up and we will have pages on pages discussing what could have been.
Probably learn about the package it would have taken from the Flames and how BT just wasn't willing to "overpay".

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I think Eichel will be a Sabre this season.
I also think he will light it up and we will have pages on pages discussing what could have been.
Probably learn about the package it would have taken from the Flames and how BT just wasn't willing to "overpay".

So... everything went better than expected?

[getbak]

I would be really shocked if Eichel ever plays another game for the Sabres. I doubt he'll be cleared to play until after he recovers from surgery and I don't see either the Sabres or Eichel giving in and going forward with the surgery that the other side wants.

[united]

I don't mind Tkachuk's comments at all. Players have short careers relatively speaking and should nearly always look to maximize their compensation using any permissible tactic. We, as fans, don't like the approach as it typically harms our team as far as we are concerned and we have an irrational and biased perspective on the level of loyalty players should have to our team. That despite teams showing comparatively little loyalty to most players.

The maximize compensation direction is even more important for players who play for teams with poor management groups as the money they leave on the table is almost always taken and blown to overpay worse players. For the Tkachuk brothers, playing for teams that are managed by two of the bottom five general managers in the League in Treliving and Dorion, there is no way either should consider not holding out to maximize their compensation. Any money they leave on the table just enables inept GMs to splash on players in the mold of Brouwer and Gudbranson to use two Flames examples. Even up North, McDavid's reward for not demanding the maximum contract from the Oilers is them overpaying Darnell Nurse. What a prize.

A player should consider taking a pay reduction if they are on a team that is a contender or close to it, and is managed by a top tier GM. They can be confident the money they leave on the table will be used efficiently to improve the team's probability of winning a Stanley Cup. For any team not close to contending or with a poor management group, no discount should ever be considered, all things equal (desire to stay in city, family, etc.). A player on the Colorado Avalanche? Yeah, definitely worth leaving some dough on the table. A player on the Calgary Flames? Hell no.

On that note, it is sure going to be interesting to see how hard Ritch Winter of Raze grinds for Mangiapane given the state of the Flames and his opinion of their leadership team, the previous Mangiapane negotiation, and how the Giordano situation unfolded. Of course, ultimately he acts as Mangiapane wishes should Bread just want #### to get done...

[The Wolfman]

Come on flames fans do we ever just love our star players?? Down the highway they Warship their guys until they leave! Even the ones that suck like Kassian, chassion, horcoff, cry baby Canada they act like they are all 1st ballots and what do we do as flames fans? The min someone or something is not perfect we just sh$t all over them. The amount of trade Johnny, shut up Mathew, Monny is done comments there are is just crazy. It even goes back to when iggy was here we constantly dump on our guys and then when things are good we pretend like we don’t. I am sick of hearing how the oilers are going to turn a corner and win a cup that was the Narrative even when it was hall and eberle. Mean while here everything is how we suck and we are doomed. I get they have McMuffin and he is going to win them games on his own but people we need to start supporting and cheering our team/ players on. Mathews comments are just fine if you thought the Tkachuks didn’t run things that way your crazy

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by The Wolfman

Come on flames fans do we ever just love our star players?? Down the highway they Warship their guys until they leave! Even the ones that suck like Kassian, chassion, horcoff, cry baby Canada they act like they are all 1st ballots and what do we do as flames fans? The min someone or something is not perfect we just sh$t all over them. The amount of trade Johnny, shut up Mathew, Monny is done comments there are is just crazy. It even goes back to when iggy was here we constantly dump on our guys and then when things are good we pretend like we don’t. I am sick of hearing how the oilers are going to turn a corner and win a cup that was the Narrative even when it was hall and eberle. Mean while here everything is how we suck and we are doomed. I get they have McMuffin and he is going to win them games on his own but people we need to start supporting and cheering our team/ players on. Mathews comments are just fine if you thought the Tkachuks didn’t run things that way your crazy

So when Oilers fans throw their jerseys on the ice they are just trying to get autographs?

[The Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

So when Oilers fans throw their jerseys on the ice they are just trying to get autographs?

Lol valid point I am more saying as a whole it seems like flames fans turn on their star players quicker and I think it’s getting worse every year. Is it the frustration of being mediocre? Is it because other then 2004 we haven’t had a sniff at the cup? All I know is lately the minute we get a talent player in to The red jersey we are running him out of town quickly. Mathew making a few comments about his brothers contract and we are up in arms about him being cocky and out spoken! Have you seen a single game or interview of this guy lol that’s who he is. Johnny wants out of Calgary hates it he… in more then a few interviews he says he loves it here, move Monny for whatever we can get the guys is to soft to win with…. The guy has 30 goals 3 times

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I think Eichel will be a Sabre this season.
I also think he will light it up and we will have pages on pages discussing what could have been.
Probably learn about the package it would have taken from the Flames and how BT just wasn't willing to "overpay".

my guess, he takes his physical and does not pass, he is placed on the IR or LTIR

However he gets paid,

His stance to get traded does not change

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Wolfman

Mathews comments are just fine if you thought the Tkachuks didn’t run things that way your crazy

I don't think his comments are eye opening or anything as we all know the Tkachuks are mercenaries. It's why Matthew signed that bridge deal as the family will have full control in negotiations this summer as the Flames will have to hand out an extremely high, possibly unrealistic 8 year contract or he's going to hit free agency and get that money from the Blues or another team. The Senators are probably trying to avoid giving the Matthew deal to Brady but he will probably hold out and force their hand.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think his comments are eye opening or anything as we all know the Tkachuks are mercenaries. It's why Matthew signed that bridge deal as the family will have full control in negotiations this summer as the Flames will have to hand out an extremely high, possibly unrealistic 8 year contract or he's going to hit free agency and get that money from the Blues or another team. The Senators are probably trying to avoid giving the Matthew deal to Brady but he will probably hold out and force their hand.

I am not sure I would call someone a mercenary LOL simply because they want to maximize their income being paid by a group of owners who are billionaires.

You mention the Flames may have to hand out "an extremely high, possibly unrealistic 8 year contract", or he'll go UFA and get the same money elsewhere. I guess it's not that unrealistic then if other teams will pay it.

I doubt that Calgary is Tkachuk's dream place to play. I expect that Calgary would need to pay through the nose to get him to commit to staying here. And by that, I means an 8 years contract at more than the Blues would want to pay him.

To some degree, Johnny is in the same boat. If Calgary doesn't commit to an 8 year contract at an amount that would likely make us gag, he can go tom UFA and Calgary gets nothing. Sure they can try and move him at the trade deadline, but that's unlikely if they are vying for a playoff spot (which in their division is almost assured), plus we have no idea if he puts 5 teams on his Can Trade List that would have any interest in him.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I am not sure I would call someone a mercenary LOL simply because they want to maximize their income being paid by a group of owners who are billionaires.

You mention the Flames may have to hand out "an extremely high, possibly unrealistic 8 year contract", or he'll go UFA and get the same money elsewhere. I guess it's not that unrealistic then if other teams will pay it.

I doubt that Calgary is Tkachuk's dream place to play. I expect that Calgary would need to pay through the nose to get him to commit to staying here. And by that, I means an 8 years contract at more than the Blues would want to pay him.

To some degree, Johnny is in the same boat. If Calgary doesn't commit to an 8 year contract at an amount that would likely make us gag, he can go tom UFA and Calgary gets nothing. Sure they can try and move him at the trade deadline, but that's unlikely if they are vying for a playoff spot (which in their division is almost assured), plus we have no idea if he puts 5 teams on his Can Trade List that would have any interest in him.

I think fans sometimes think players should have the same passion for the team that they do, teams are their employers. It's a business, players know this, teams know this, fans think players owe the city something and should have some sort of loyalty.
Maybe Keith had some loyalty but once he was traded I'm sure it reminded him that teams aren't as loyal as they seem either, if the team can better the themselves by trading a player they will do it every time, why should a player not have their best interest at heart. I'm sure his kids learned this message early.

[GioforPM]

For me it’s less about whether they are tough in negotiations and more about poor choices when being interviewed. There was no need to come off this way and it’s just not helpful or productive.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by united

I don't mind Tkachuk's comments at all. Players have short careers relatively speaking and should nearly always look to maximize their compensation using any permissible tactic. We, as fans, don't like the approach as it typically harms our team as far as we are concerned and we have an irrational and biased perspective on the level of loyalty players should have to our team. That despite teams showing comparatively little loyalty to most players.

The maximize compensation direction is even more important for players who play for teams with poor management groups as the money they leave on the table is almost always taken and blown to overpay worse players. For the Tkachuk brothers, playing for teams that are managed by two of the bottom five general managers in the League in Treliving and Dorion, there is no way either should consider not holding out to maximize their compensation. Any money they leave on the table just enables inept GMs to splash on players in the mold of Brouwer and Gudbranson to use two Flames examples. Even up North, McDavid's reward for not demanding the maximum contract from the Oilers is them overpaying Darnell Nurse. What a prize.

A player should consider taking a pay reduction if they are on a team that is a contender or close to it, and is managed by a top tier GM. They can be confident the money they leave on the table will be used efficiently to improve the team's probability of winning a Stanley Cup. For any team not close to contending or with a poor management group, no discount should ever be considered, all things equal (desire to stay in city, family, etc.). A player on the Colorado Avalanche? Yeah, definitely worth leaving some dough on the table. A player on the Calgary Flames? Hell no.

On that note, it is sure going to be interesting to see how hard Ritch Winter of Raze grinds for Mangiapane given the state of the Flames and his opinion of their leadership team, the previous Mangiapane negotiation, and how the Giordano situation unfolded. Of course, ultimately he acts as Mangiapane wishes should Bread just want #### to get done...

IIRC the narrative with Tkachuk when he signed his bridge deal was that it was important for him to leave the Flames money to keep the team together, which was interpreted as a reference to Frolik. The Flames were tight against the cap as usual and any more money to Tkachuk would have squeezed Frolik out. Well Frolik gets dealt midway through the season anyway.

Now I never really bought that Frolik's situation was a factor for Tkachuk, and it was simply the reality of the Flames cap situation that they didn't have any room to sign Tkachuk long term. And who knows, maybe he wanted exactly what he got anyway.

But it goes to prove your point that allocation of cap dollars is something that should be the GM's problem, not the players. Of course Treliving seems to be far from the only GM who struggles with this.

[TheIronMaiden]

Tkachuk might regret being so brash, but what he said was true - Players need to worry about themselves first when negotiating their contracts.

That said, as a fan I say talk is cheap. Your services cost money, now prove you are worth it. Holding out for a contract is the Tkachuk way, how about winning, is that all in the family?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Holding out for a contract is the Tkachuk way, how about winning, is that at all in the family?

Fixed your post. Keith Tkachuk played over 1,200 NHL games, and only 89 playoff games. Winning did not follow Tkachuk around. He got his money, but he didn't win anything of consequence. Seems like the kids are following in the old man's path.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Fixed your post. Keith Tkachuk played over 1,200 NHL games, and only 89 playoff games. Winning did not follow Tkachuk around. He got his money, but he didn't win anything of consequence. Seems like the kids are following in the old man's path.

Keith Tkachuk "won" about $81,338,674 in career earnings...that's pretty significant right there. Signing discounts is no guarantee of anything from a team success perspective, and quite frankly when you're looking at the "recent" history of the the two teams the Tkachuk brothers play for...why would they consider signing for anything below absolute top market dollar? Neither team has shown they can build a team that can win anything. Even if the Tkachuk brothers did give a discount, these teams would likely go spend that extra money on players like Troy Brouwer or James Neal.

[CliffFletcher]

I don’t have a problem with Matthew Tkachuk using his leverage to maximize how much he earns in his next contract. If this ends in tears for the Flames (and I fear it will), that won’t be on Tkachuk. It will be on a Flames braintrust that didn’t have the foresight to see it coming, and the mettle to make difficult asset-management decisions.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Keith Tkachuk "won" about $81,338,674 in career earnings...that's pretty significant right there. Signing discounts is no guarantee of anything from a team success perspective, and quite frankly when you're looking at the "recent" history of the the two teams the Tkachuk brothers play for...why would they consider signing for anything below absolute top market dollar? Neither team has shown they can build a team that can win anything. Even if the Tkachuk brothers did give a discount, these teams would likely go spend that extra money on players like Troy Brouwer or James Neal.

Hot take. Tkachuk was "paid" for his service. He didn't "win" the money. His agent negotiated for it and got him "paid." That is very different from winning or being part of a winner. Tkachuk was always about Tkachuk, first and foremost. Getting paid was his thing. Winning? Not so much.

The problem I always saw with Tkachuk was he wasn't a winner. He was about personal success over team success, which always made me glad he wasn't on the Flames. I don't begrudge the guy for making his money, but I didn't like that he wasn't a big team player. Don't like guys like that. Tkachuk will be remembered more for counting the dollars he was paid than be remembered as a guy that performed for his team or when the chips were down. Not a great legacy IMO.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Hot take. Tkachuk was "paid" for his service. He didn't "win" the money. His agent negotiated for it and got him "paid." That is very different from winning or being part of a winner. Tkachuk was always about Tkachuk, first and foremost. Getting paid was his thing. Winning? Not so much.

The problem I always saw with Tkachuk was he wasn't a winner. He was about personal success over team success, which always made me glad he wasn't on the Flames. I don't begrudge the guy for making his money, but I didn't like that he wasn't a big team player. Don't like guys like that. Tkachuk will be remembered more for counting the dollars he was paid than be remembered as a guy that performed for his team or when the chips were down. Not a great legacy IMO.

Yeah, I don't disagree entirely. I'd argue what value a legacy in the game of hockey is worth. I'd gladly sell any legacy for an additional $10M or so career earnings - because I'd say a more important legacy is setting up generations worth of wealth for your children and so on and so forth.

Also, how is a team in the Flames/Sens situation supposed to handle this if they're trying to win? You win Championships with top tier talent, and both Tkachuk's are physical top tier talent. I think both guys are worth top dollar on these upcoming contracts. It's why, if the Flames aren't ripping it down, I'd be happy to see Matthew get a solid 6 year deal worth up to $10M per. We'd be buying his best years at a decent dollar figure (market value showing Jones and Nurse as $9.5M makes Tkachuk worth $10M in my opinion).

Would I want to sign Tkachuk to a long term big dollar deal beyond 30/into his mid and late 30s? Probably not - but for these next 6 years? I'd happily spend the $10M on him.