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Old 10-16-2020, 03:51 PM   #121
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Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg
Asked Andrew Mangiapane if a longer term contract was discussed prior to signing a two-year deal with Calgary.

Says he’d have been open to it, but team’s tight cap situation essentially dictated a shorter term from the start. #Flames
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Old 10-16-2020, 04:01 PM   #122
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I think signing Mang for two years is as big a screw up as signing Tkachuk to a bridge deal was (different scale though). Brutal contract management in the bottom six has caused the team a cap crunch today, and will cause cap issues going forward.
Tkachuk scored 61 points last season and has 3 goals and 2 assists in 15 playff games.

If he evens out to 60 point player instead of an 80 point player, which at this point seems like a very realistic possibility, we'll be quite happy in 2022 that Tkachuk isn't getting paid like he can score a point per game.


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Tkachuk is going to see a huge increase after his deal is up, and he will have all the leverage.
See above. I think there's a good chance the increase isn't going to be what it looked like in 2019.

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Mangiapane looks like he will be in the same boat.
Huge maybe. His current season record is 32 points and less than 0.5 PPG. Throwing either term or money at guys this early in their NHL careers is a bad idea.

The reason Mangiapane looks so good is because his tenacity stands out among our top 6. This is not a knock on Mangiapane, but I feel like people have been kind of blinded by relatively low expectations and the contrast which doesn't flatter most of our other guys.

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Gaudreau's contract comes up. Giordano's contract comes up. Monahan's the year after. Those are all very important deals on core players. The core is not locked-up long term. Treliving is going to have to navigate the next off-seasons incredibly carefully.
While true, two years is a lot of time. Gaudreau might not be here. Giordano might not be here.

BTW, Monahan was a 50 point player last season and 4th in TOI/G among forwards, which is not good for a 1st line center. His real claim to fame was being a guy who could put the puck in the net when given the slightest opportunity, but the last we saw that Moneyhands guy was before the 2019 all-star break.

To my eyes it looks like Monahans magic scoring hands are pretty much gone with his injuries, and they've now been gone so long that I wouldn't bet on them coming back. If my guess is right, he'll be lucky to get a raise at all.

To put it bluntly, lately our top players haven't looked like we need to worry about finding cap space for them in two years, as they've been the reason we've been getting crap results.

Last edited by Itse; 10-16-2020 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 10-16-2020, 04:27 PM   #123
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Tkachuk scored 61 points last season and has 3 goals and 2 assists in 15 playff games.

If he evens out to 60 point player instead of an 80 point player, which at this point seems like a very realistic possibility, we'll be quite happy in 2022 that Tkachuk isn't getting paid like he can score a point per game.

See above. I think there's a good chance the increase isn't going to be what it looked like in 2019.
Despite a team-wide down season, Tkachuk still followed up his 78-point season with a season in which he led the team in scoring and was on pace for 72 points despite facing the toughest competition every night.

Betting on him to be a 60 point player is quite the interesting, likely bad bet.

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Huge maybe. His current season record is 32 points and less than 0.5 PPG. Throwing either term or money at guys this early in their NHL careers is a bad idea.

The reason Mangiapane looks so good is because his tenacity stands out among our top 6. This is not a knock on Mangiapane, but I feel like people have been kind of blinded by relatively low expectations and the contrast which doesn't flatter most of our other guys.
The reason Mangiapane looks so good is because he is so good. His rates put him among the very elite 2nd liners in the NHL already and he's likely to get better.

Even at his current 5v5 production, his contract is an absolute steal.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:02 PM   #124
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Just under $4M left for Kylington plus UFA/PDO/deadline deals/trades.
need 3 more D counting Kylington to make 8

Mackey $925
Petrovic $700
Kylington 700

and 4 more 700K forwards to make 14 and that leaves them over by 500K

Somebody needs to get hurt or moved.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:05 PM   #125
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need 3 more D counting Kylington to make 8

Mackey $925
Petrovic $700
Kylington 700

and 4 more 700K forwards to make 14 and that leaves them over by 500K

Somebody needs to get hurt or moved.
Don't need 8 necessarily.

I fully expect the Flames to make more moves, but they could roll into the season with 13 forwards, 7 defenseman and 2 goalies for a roster of 22 to be cap compliant.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:05 PM   #126
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The Flames now have about $3.29M with Gawdin and the 10 forwards listed by CapFriendly. They need to re-sign Kylington and add a forward. That forward could be a prospect or an acquisition. I'd also like to see them acquire a quality RHD for the 3rd pairing.

Personally, I think if Kylington wants to play for the Flames, he will sign for league minimum ($700K) like Gawdin.

So, that would leave the Flames with about $2.59M for the final forward and another RHD. If the Flames are smart, they could potentially get some pretty good pieces with what people have been signing for.
You need more then 12 forwards and 6 D-men... You need to plan on a few guys getting sick hit by the puck in the warm up.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:14 PM   #127
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need 3 more D counting Kylington to make 8

Mackey $925
Petrovic $700
Kylington 700

and 4 more 700K forwards to make 14 and that leaves them over by 500K

Somebody needs to get hurt or moved.
You only have a 23-man roster. 8 D+14 F+2 G… looks like someone can't count.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:39 PM   #128
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You only have a 23-man roster. 8 D+14 F+2 G… looks like someone can't count.
And I think they will start with 22 to bank cap space.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:43 PM   #129
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Tkachuk scored 61 points last season and has 3 goals and 2 assists in 15 playff games.

If he evens out to 60 point player instead of an 80 point player, which at this point seems like a very realistic possibility, we'll be quite happy in 2022 that Tkachuk isn't getting paid like he can score a point per game.
Tkachuk gets a QO of 9M. He will be getting paid at though he is a ppg player regardless of his scoring over the next 2 years.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:46 PM   #130
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Tkachuk gets a QO of 9M. He will be getting paid at though he is a ppg player regardless of his scoring over the next 2 years.
This is true.

Tkachuk will write his own ticket pretty much, because if he doesn't like what's being offered he can just take the QO and go UFA 1 off season later.

This is very much why Josh Anderson just got that massive deal from the Habs. They had to give him basically whatever he wanted or he was gone for nothing in one season.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:46 PM   #131
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You need more then 12 forwards and 6 D-men... You need to plan on a few guys getting sick hit by the puck in the warm up.


Wut
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:06 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL View Post
Despite a team-wide down season, Tkachuk still followed up his 78-point season with a season in which he led the team in scoring and was on pace for 72 points despite facing the toughest competition every night.

Betting on him to be a 60 point player is quite the interesting, likely bad bet.



The reason Mangiapane looks so good is because he is so good. His rates put him among the very elite 2nd liners in the NHL already and he's likely to get better.

Even at his current 5v5 production, his contract is an absolute steal.
He is a really good player on a good contract but his .47 ppg puts him in 187 spot among NHL forwards with more than 40 games ...

The first 93 players are #1 line players the second 93 94-186 and Magniapane is the #1 3rd line scorer by ppg in whole league.


Backlund at .64 ppg sits at #107 and could be considered among the elite 2nd liners.
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:27 PM   #133
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He is a really good player on a good contract but his .47 ppg puts him in 187 spot among NHL forwards with more than 40 games ...

The first 93 players are #1 line players the second 93 94-186 and Magniapane is the #1 3rd line scorer by ppg in whole league.


Backlund at .64 ppg sits at #107 and could be considered among the elite 2nd liners.
Last season, Mangiapane played 861:18 at 5v5, which ranked 116th among NHL forwards.

In those minutes, Mangiapane:

- scored 15 goals (tied for 43rd among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)
- scored at a rate of 1.04 goals per 60 minutes (ties for 54th among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)

- had 11 primary assists (tied for 71st among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)
- recorded primary assists at a rate of 0.77 per 60 minutes (tied for 83rd among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)

- had 29 total points (tied for 77th among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)
- recorded points at a rate of 2.02 per 60 minutes (tied for 86th among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)

All despite playing against elite competition night in and night out on the shutdown line.

By all accounts, Mangiapane produced like a first liner offensively 5v5 last season.

By all accounts, Mangiapane was also a beast defensively with incredible possession + scoring chance rates.

Last edited by AustinL_NHL; 10-16-2020 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:29 PM   #134
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Despite a team-wide down season, Tkachuk still followed up his 78-point season with a season in which he led the team in scoring and was on pace for 72 points despite facing the toughest competition every night.

Betting on him to be a 60 point player is quite the interesting, likely bad bet.
For the record, I think Tkachuk is probably going to be something like a 70 point player.

My point was more that it's not yet clear what Tkachuk is, or what Mangiapane is, and even though it puts me in the minority, I will rather take the risk that comes with a bridge deal.
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:31 PM   #135
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Good contract. Liked his game and eventual development in the regular season. Didn’t like his ineffectiveness in the playoffs. But hey, he is young, he gets a chance.

After a really long drought, the line with him and Backlund got red hot. If he and Backs can get that mojo back, all is good.

Overall, how can you not like this player?
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Old 10-16-2020, 07:02 PM   #136
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Old 10-16-2020, 07:33 PM   #137
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Best they could do under the circumstances. Shame... this was the opportunity to sign a guy longterm for way less then he'll be worth but they pissed away cap space on stupid stuff so now they can't buy the smart stuff.
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Old 10-17-2020, 03:49 AM   #138
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Best they could do under the circumstances. Shame... this was the opportunity to sign a guy longterm for way less then he'll be worth but they pissed away cap space on stupid stuff so now they can't buy the smart stuff.
Two camps have to agree to these terms.
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Old 10-17-2020, 05:49 AM   #139
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Longer term would have been great. I love Mangiapane. Was at the dome for his hat trick and he's now in my good books for life. So fun to root for.
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Old 10-17-2020, 11:17 AM   #140
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Last season, Mangiapane played 861:18 at 5v5, which ranked 116th among NHL forwards.

In those minutes, Mangiapane:

- scored 15 goals (tied for 43rd among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)
- scored at a rate of 1.04 goals per 60 minutes (ties for 54th among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)

- had 11 primary assists (tied for 71st among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)
- recorded primary assists at a rate of 0.77 per 60 minutes (tied for 83rd among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)

- had 29 total points (tied for 77th among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)
- recorded points at a rate of 2.02 per 60 minutes (tied for 86th among all NHL forwards - 1st line production)

All despite playing against elite competition night in and night out on the shutdown line.

By all accounts, Mangiapane produced like a first liner offensively 5v5 last season.

By all accounts, Mangiapane was also a beast defensively with incredible possession + scoring chance rates.
I mean... He did play the season on our actual first line
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