[Trade] Vegas trades Schmidt to Vancouver for a 2022 3rd

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

You keep saying this and it's not true. The "system" implemented by Vancouver was to be frequently outplayed and rely on their goalie to bail them out. They continually gave up more scoring chances than they created.

Vancouver was 3rd worst in SCF% last year. 5th worst in xGF%, 9th worst in CF%. Take a look at the other teams around them in these categories. It's not good company.

They are the very definition of a team that was repeatedly bailed out by their goalie (as Flames fans we know exactly what this looks like). While being a very good defenseman, Schmidt will undoubtedly face more pressure on the Canucks back end. Maybe he will step up, maybe he will regress. We will find out soon (but not soon enough).

So Koskinan had the same stats as Markanen and the Oilers had similar rankings in those categories, does that make him a similar quality goalie?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So Koskinan had the same stats as Markanen and the Oilers had similar rankings in those categories, does that make him a similar quality goalie?

*Markstrom

Did NHL GMs think Koskinan was the 4th best goalie in the league?

The Oilers also offered him a 7 year contract because they already had a goalie as good?

obviously not

[Robbob]

Nate Schmidt is a cheater and was suspended 20 games. Schmidt is no good.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

*Markstrom

Did NHL GMs think Koskinan was the 4th best goalie in the league?

The Oilers also offered him a 7 year contract because they are the same?

Well i'm just trying to figure out what stats matter and which ones don't. For the record I do think Markstrom is the better goalie and I don't think one off voting by GM's means much.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Nate Schmidt is a cheater and was suspended 20 games. Schmidt is no good.

This is a narrative I can get behind.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So Koskinan had the same stats as Markanen and the Oilers had similar rankings in those categories, does that make him a similar quality goalie?

I mean, the Oilers were better than the Canucks in all of these categories, so it's not exactly an equal comparison. But I'd say Koskinen had a pretty good year last year. Signing is always an estimation of future value though, and it would seem the Oilers (by their offer to Markstrom) felt he would be an upgrade on Koskinen going forward.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

I mean, the Oilers were better than the Canucks in all of these categories, so it's not exactly an equal comparison. But I'd say Koskinen had a pretty good year last year. Signing is always an estimation of future value though, and it would seem the Oilers (by their offer to Markstrom) felt he would be an upgrade on Koskinen going forward.

5on5 they were worse in 2 of the 3 catagories, and most flames fans would probably say the Oilers are worse or at best even defensively. Koski may be coming into his own but it may not be a sure thing. The signing of smith is inexcusable though.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Weitz

5on5 they were worse in 2 of the 3 catagories, and most flames fans would probably say the Oilers are worse or at best even defensively. Koski may be coming into his own but it may not be a sure thing. The signing of smith is inexcusable though.

Both the Oilers and Vancouver made their hay on special teams. I included all time on my lists to give an indication of overall scoring chances.

[dino7c]

Both the Oilers and Canucks suck is what it boils down to

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

You keep saying this and it's not true. The "system" implemented by Vancouver was to be frequently outplayed and rely on their goalie to bail them out. They continually gave up more scoring chances than they created.

Vancouver was 3rd worst in SCF% last year. 5th worst in xGF%, 9th worst in CF%. Take a look at the other teams around them in these categories. It's not good company.

Oh, I never said it was a good system, but it is a system the Canucks play. In the defensive zone they collapse to the middle to deny high-slot and center chances. They try and force all shots from the outside. Markstrom does better the more shots he faces, so they allow opposing teams to take as many shots as they want from the outside, trying their best to make sure they're clean shots with little traffic.

Now is some of that system created because they just don't have the players to make something less risky work? Yep, but that doesn't change the fact that this is the system. They talked about it a lot through the play-offs, so it's not shocking most Flames fans missed it. Didn't have much reason to watch after some early success vs half of the Jets.

Originally Posted by Infinit47

They are the very definition of a team that was repeatedly bailed out by their goalie (as Flames fans we know exactly what this looks like). While being a very good defenseman, Schmidt will undoubtedly face more pressure on the Canucks back end. Maybe he will step up, maybe he will regress. We will find out soon (but not soon enough).

I don't disagree. For this system to work, your goalie needs to be your best player. It's why I think it's an awkward, silly system.

Schmidt is going from being the #1/#2 d-man on a team too... the #2 dman on a team. Why would there be more pressure? He was already slotting against top lines and top players. Nothing is going to change for him. What changes is the two guys coming out after him aren't going to be as good as they were in Vegas.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Oh, I never said it was a good system, but it is a system the Canucks play. In the defensive zone they collapse to the middle to deny high-slot and center chances. They try and force all shots from the outside. Markstrom does better the more shots he faces, so they allow opposing teams to take as many shots as they want from the outside, trying their best to make sure they're clean shots with little traffic.

Now is some of that system created because they just don't have the players to make something less risky work? Yep, but that doesn't change the fact that this is the system. They talked about it a lot through the play-offs, so it's not shocking most Flames fans missed it. Didn't have much reason to watch after some early success vs half of the Jets.



I don't disagree. For this system to work, your goalie needs to be your best player. It's why I think it's an awkward, silly system.

Schmidt is going from being the #1/#2 d-man on a team too... the #2 dman on a team. Why would there be more pressure? He was already slotting against top lines and top players. Nothing is going to change for him. What changes is the two guys coming out after him aren't going to be as good as they were in Vegas.

Nothing will change, except that in Vegas the team was pushing the pace and generating more scoring chances than they were giving up. In Vancouver he will be defending more, whether by design or overall team skill.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Nothing will change, except that in Vegas the team was pushing the pace and generating more scoring chances than they were giving up. In Vancouver he will be defending more, whether by design or overall team skill.

And you don't think a player like Schmidt was brought in so the team can change to a more pace-pushing team?

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

And you don't think a player like Schmidt was brought in so the team can change to a more pace-pushing team?

Nope. He isn't enough to change the way your entire team plays. He's not Prime Chris Pronger or Scott Neidermayer.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

And you don't think a player like Schmidt was brought in so the team can change to a more pace-pushing team?

Me thinks your expectations are maybe just a smidge high.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Nope. He isn't enough to change the way your entire team plays. He's not Prime Chris Pronger or Scott Neidermayer.

No, our comparison to those two is our number 1 dman. Schmidt is number two and something we had nothing even close too last season.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Me thinks your expectations are maybe just a smidge high.

To think that we've upgraded our D in a move to not be a punching bag defensively? God, I hope not. I'd hate to think we brought Schmidt in to stand there and get hit by pucks the same way Tanev used too.

[afc wimbledon]

the problem with Schmidt is nothing to do with the player, its the fact that it all looks a bit half arsed, that Benning fell in a tub of pig sh**, trying to make the OEL deal happen at the expense of everything else, but then came up smelling of roses through little more than luck.

It seems Benning screws up when he is pursuing 'a signing', he is better when he hasnt got control of the situation and is having to make decisions on the fly

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

the problem with Schmidt is nothing to do with the player, its the fact that it all looks a bit half arsed, that Benning fell in a tub of pig sh**, trying to make the OEL deal happen at the expense of everything else, but then came up smelling of roses through little more than luck.

It seems Benning screws up when he is pursuing 'a signing', he is better when he hasnt got control of the situation and is having to make decisions on the fly

Correct.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

No, our comparison to those two is our number 1 dman. Schmidt is number two and something we had nothing even close too last season.






To think that we've upgraded our D in a move to not be a punching bag defensively? God, I hope not. I'd hate to think we brought Schmidt in to stand there and get hit by pucks the same way Tanev used too.

3 out and 1 in. Even though you upgraded Tanev, you lost elsewhere. So the comparison is the positive difference between Schmidt and Tanev, less the other losses.

Vancouver is still down in my opinion. And they definitely didn't go from defensive punching bag to possession powerhouse.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Vancouver is still down in my opinion. And they definitely didn't go from defensive punching bag to possession powerhouse.

Nope, not yet. Don't disagree there. But I'd imagine a move like this is a move to get there.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I really had hoped OEL was traded to Vancouver to screw them over even more. Somehow, Benning lucks out again.