Stars Owner: Top players being paid too much

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by agulati

3 keepers. I’m tempted to keep Barkov, Ovi and Tkachuk, since Robertson looks like he will miss the whole or most of camp.

Oooooh. Yeah good call, I'd do the same.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Yup, it was a bit of a discount IMO, but mostly for being 1 year early. Securing $100M makes a lot more sense than risking another year to go for $120M, before you even consider the implications to team building.

Also it was before Matthews and Marner changed the RFA norms. In today's context, Mavi's biggest 'discount' was giving 8 yrs instead of 5-6.

I wonder what term Matthews will sign for next. ELC-5-5-7 is probably the best way to maximize a 20 yr career (but of course has more risk)

He’s a max player. Whether you should take the max because it essentially handcuffs your team is a different story. There’s no way he doesn’t get a max sheet if he’s eligible and there’s no way the oilers don’t match so he’s essentially screwing his own team’s cap making it harder to win.




The fact the oilers haven’t been able to put something together with McDavid just goes to show how incredibly inept their management is. Just brutal.

[jroc]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No one has signed for the max, including Crosby

And McDavid was signing a post-ELC contract.

It was not a discount

Brad Richards signed for the max back in 05-06. $7.8M on a $39 M cap.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by jroc

Brad Richards signed for the max back in 05-06. $7.8M on a $39 M cap.

Richards signed that contract after the '05-06 season. It went into effect in '06-07, when the cap was $44 million.

The maximum salary is pretty much a dead letter. In theory you can pay one player 20% of your total payroll, but in practice nobody ever builds a team that way.

[Ashasx]

What were the Oilers gonna do if McDavid asked for the max 20%? Trade him?

He absolutely took a discount. It just happens in hockey.

[N-E-B]

It sounds really disingenuous to suggest a guy who, at the time, signed a contract worth $2M/year more than the next highest guy took a discount. He didn't take a discount, and I sincerely doubt the max contract was ever a realistic option.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

It sounds really disingenuous to suggest a guy who, at the time, signed a contract worth $2M/year more than the next highest guy took a discount. He didn't take a discount, and I sincerely doubt the max contract was ever a realistic option.

He absolutely took a discount. Top players just usually don't take what they are worth. Probably worried about the blowback to their legacy from all the blowhard armchair media who don't bat an eye when guys like Lucic and Neal take every last penny they can get their hands on.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

He absolutely took a discount. Top players just usually don't take what they are worth. Probably worried about the blowback to their legacy from all the blowhard armchair media who don't bat an eye when guys like Lucic and Neal take every last penny they can get their hands on.

No he didn't. Relative to the market he took exactly what he was worth. Just because they could pay him more doesn't mean he's actually worth more.

He didn't take a discount.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

No he didn't. Relative to the market he took exactly what he was worth. Just because they could pay him more doesn't mean he's actually worth more.

He didn't take a discount.

He could've demanded more, and they would have almost certainly paid it. = Discount.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

No he didn't. Relative to the market he took exactly what he was worth. Just because they could pay him more doesn't mean he's actually worth more.

He didn't take a discount.

I'm gonna have to disagree. He took a discount specifically because he could have and would have gotten more if he really wanted to. You don't think the Leafs had any issues giving up 4 1st round picks to sign him to an offer sheet at max value and max term?

[Enoch Root]

The fact that another team might be willing to overpay, does not mean a player took a discount

McDavid had been in the league for 2 years when he signed the deal, and it made him the highest paid player in the league, by a couple million. Suggesting it was a discount is pure hindsight bias.

[Ashasx]

McDavid signed an extension the first possible day he could. He didn't play hardball. He could have gotten every penny he wanted. And what are the Oilers gonna do? Not pay him?

He took a discount, and many said the same thing on July 1, 2017. There is a lot of pressure in the NHL for the best players to take discounts so the team can add more players to win.

Of course, the Oilers repaid the favour by overpaying Nurse and others, but I fail to see how anyone can think taking anything less than max dollars anything but a discount.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The fact that another team might be willing to overpay, does not mean a player took a discount

McDavid had been in the league for 2 years when he signed the deal, and it made him the highest paid player in the league, by a couple million. Suggesting it was a discount is pure hindsight bias.

I don't think he took a discount as much as I think he just signed to get it done.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

McDavid signed an extension the first possible day he could. He didn't play hardball. He could have gotten every penny he wanted. And what are the Oilers gonna do? Not pay him?

He took a discount, and many said the same thing on July 1, 2017. There is a lot of pressure in the NHL for the best players to take discounts so the team can add more players to win.

Of course, the Oilers repaid the favour by overpaying Nurse and others, but I fail to see how anyone can think taking anything less than max dollars anything but a discount.

A contract has to make sense for the team and the player. Every good player could squeeze out more, but that doesn't mean they all took discounts.

Again, he had been in the league for 2 years and had put up a total of 148 pts. Saying anything less than the maximum is a discount is laughable, IMO.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

He could've demanded more, and they would have almost certainly paid it. = Discount.

I highly doubt they would have. It would have crippled their cap structure. I don't think any team in the NHL has the ability to pay the absolute maximum allowed. Especially if they're serious about winning.

If McDavid demand $15M/year the Oilers would have just let him sit. McDavid knew that. His agent knew it. He took the most he could have realistically expected.

The notion that he took a discount is, frankly, absurd.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I'm gonna have to disagree. He took a discount specifically because he could have and would have gotten more if he really wanted to. You don't think the Leafs had any issues giving up 4 1st round picks to sign him to an offer sheet at max value and max term?

Why would the Leafs do that when they already have Auston Matthews? Of course they wouldn't have paid that price.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Why would the Leafs do that when they already have Auston Matthews? Of course they wouldn't have paid that price.

Because they could have had Austin Matthews AND McDavid?

Edit: Or traded Matthews for a haul. Are you arguing Matthews is as good as McDavid?

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Because they could have had Austin Matthews AND McDavid?

Edit: Or traded Matthews for a haul. Are you arguing Matthews is as good as McDavid?

No, I'm arguing that it doesn't make any sense to upgrade from Matthews to McDavid for your #1C if the cost is a max term contract and 4 1st round picks. Sure, they'd have McDavid and Matthews, but they'd be surrounded by no one and wouldn't be a competitive team. Better to just keep Matthews as a cheaper and only slightly worse #1C than destroy your team and cap for a marginal upgrade.

Having Matthews and McDavid is useless if the rest of your lineup is ELC and league minimum guys.

[The Yen Man]

Max contract at the time was what? $14M? That's $1.5M more than what McDavid got, and $4M more than what they ended up signing Nylander for. I highly doubt the $1.5M would make or break a team and need the rest of the team at ELC and league min guys. Agree to disagree, but I'm firmly of the belief that had McDavid waited till he was RFA, Leafs would have been the first team to throw the max salary and term at him, and then work out the other contracts later. At that time, they still had Matthews and Marner making ELC for one more year, and most likely would have traded Nylander to recoup some of their 1st round picks they gave up for McDavid.

Edit: Sorry, mistead Nylander's contract, his cap hit is $7M. My point still stands. They would have traded Nylander to cover for part of McDavid's salary. And who knows, they may have played more hardball with Marner in the next summer rather than just hand him the $10.9M deal.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I highly doubt they would have. It would have crippled their cap structure. I don't think any team in the NHL has the ability to pay the absolute maximum allowed. Especially if they're serious about winning.

If McDavid demand $15M/year the Oilers would have just let him sit. McDavid knew that. His agent knew it. He took the most he could have realistically expected.

The notion that he took a discount is, frankly, absurd.

The bolded declarative statement is absurd. There are lots of different opinions with valid arguments...this might be the most absurd time to declare 'only my opinion is right' in the history of the internet.

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Max contract at the time was what? $14M? That's $1.5M more than what McDavid got, and $4M more than what they ended up signing Nylander for. I highly doubt the $1.5M would make or break a team and need the rest of the team at ELC and league min guys. Agree to disagree, but I'm firmly of the belief that had McDavid waited till he was RFA, Leafs would have been the first team to throw the max salary and term at him, and then work out the other contracts later. At that time, they still had Matthews and Marner making ELC for one more year, and most likely would have traded Nylander to recoup some of their 1st round picks they gave up for McDavid.

Edit: Sorry, mistead Nylander's contract, his cap hit is $7M. My point still stands. They would have traded Nylander to cover for part of McDavid's salary. And who knows, they may have played more hardball with Marner in the next summer rather than just hand him the $10.9M deal.

Marleau would have just finished his first year of his deal on Mavi's theoretical offer sheet year. Maybe they would have gotten out of it cheaply at that point. Lots of sliding doors moments