2022 Toronto Blue Jays Off-season Thread

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I'm pretty sure they have figured where Bo will play. He's going to continue as the shortstop I'd imagine. I'd love an upgrade myself (Correa and Boegarts are free agents) but I don't see it happening.

Highly doubt it’ll happen as well considering the economic situation as well as needing to sign the two aforementioned stars. I think it’s a certainty one of Guerriel or Hernandez are gone, but the question is, for who. If they are dealt I just hope a cocky veteran is brought in. There seems to be a lot of quiet confidence but not that Bautista level player there right now. Bringing that type of confidence should shake things up nicely. Manoah has it and I think that’s it.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

With Merrifield here for another season I would think Espinal will most certainly be a bench guy for 2023.

1B Vlad
2B Merrifield
3B Chapman
SS Bo

I think that would be a waste. Merrifield could be a very good sub and vet we really needed, but I think Espinal has to be give a full year to show himself. He’s shown enough flashes that if they show confidence in him, I think they could be rewarded well. Throw him on the bench and I think you permanently ruin him.

[flames_fan_down_under]

What purpose would a cocky vet serve? I find this narrative quite interesting. The need for a manager “who’s been there before” or a “cocky vet” will push the team forward. What is the evidence this helps with any team?

LaRussa did sweet eff all with a talented White Sox team. Maddon in Anaheim. AJ Hinch with the Tigers. The Phillies manager hadn’t managed a game prior to Girardi being fired and now they’re in the NLDS. Mike Matheny was fired. Buck Showalter’s team is out.

Josh Donaldson was a cocky vet who is in his fifth team over multiple years. Correa was a cocky vet who didn’t help Minnesota get anywhere. The guy mentioned Manoah was not great in his one game in the playoffs.

[Roof-Daddy]

Part of me thinks the Jays FO isn't going to make any big changes, because they really don't have to. Especially if they can add a solid starting pitcher in free agency.

But I certainly won't be surprised if they put together a package to acquire a young starter with control.

Also, it would really be nice if the Jays had a guy who could play every day above average defense in CF and also hit.

[Blaster86]

Starting pitching is an issue but it isn't even the biggest issue. The bullpen direly needs to be addressed. It's been three years of being one of the worst in baseball.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Starting pitching is an issue but it isn't even the biggest issue. The bullpen direly needs to be addressed. It's been three years of being one of the worst in baseball.

By what metric has the Jays BP been one of the worst in baseball?

16th in fWAR
16th in K/9
13th in ERA
16th in xFIP

They have an average bullpen that needs way more swing and miss ability, but hardly one of the worst in baseball.

[Kasi]

I think get one more solid reliever in there. I think if they just realize and accept Pearson is a reliever than Romano, Garcia, Bass, Pop, Cimber, Pearson, Phelps/new guy, etc is probably fine.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Kasi

I think get one more solid reliever in there. I think if they just realize and accept Pearson is a reliever than Romano, Garcia, Bass, Pop, Cimber, Pearson, Phelps/new guy, etc is probably fine.

They should probably just make Kikuchi a reliever too. His K/9 was the best of any reliever coming out of the pen after he was put there.

But I doubt they do that without giving him another go in the rotation.

[Kasi]

Kikuchi is for sure going to get another shot at the rotation. No doubt about that. I think the stuff is there just needs to get the approach right.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

What purpose would a cocky vet serve? I find this narrative quite interesting. The need for a manager “who’s been there before” or a “cocky vet” will push the team forward. What is the evidence this helps with any team?

LaRussa did sweet eff all with a talented White Sox team. Maddon in Anaheim. AJ Hinch with the Tigers. The Phillies manager hadn’t managed a game prior to Girardi being fired and now they’re in the NLDS. Mike Matheny was fired. Buck Showalter’s team is out.

Josh Donaldson was a cocky vet who is in his fifth team over multiple years. Correa was a cocky vet who didn’t help Minnesota get anywhere. The guy mentioned Manoah was not great in his one game in the playoffs.

You could be right, I could be wrong, but I think a cocky vet who can back up their play could really put the pressure on their own shoulders. For coaches the credibility is there if they've done well before. If Maddon became available as a coach I'd look at him, no doubt. Donaldson wasn't all that well liked from what I read, while JB was. I think there's a fine line, but I really think this team needs someone to take the pressure off them a bit, who can also back up their own play.

[flames_fan_down_under]

I see where you're coming from with that, but I unfortunately think that this current core simply needs to learn how to handle pressure filled moments, hopefully that monumental collapse can provide some added motivation. Adding quality vets is definitely something that needs to happen and that I am all for, however I don't know if a Jose Bautista type player could slide into a clubhouse that clearly values an upbeat, collaborative, family-like atmosphere. While I loved that 2015 iteration of the Jays I also love this version as well, and the regular season results are pretty similar.

What has been touched on is bullpen improvements. Its well documented that the front office loves to hunt for hidden/suppressed value players like Cimber/Phelps etc, almost rarely adding any sort of high end elite swing and miss relievers.

The bats are there, they will do their job. Run prevention has to be the emphasis this off season. Whether that comes in bullpen, starting pitching, or defensive improvements.

[bluejays]

For sure. I think we’re in agreement there. I’m not totally into the old vets needing to be on any team in any sport but I do figure there has been a lot of pressure on the team as they did blow expectations out of the water a couple seasons ago. Since then they’ve been blown out and I do wonder if they need that papa to take pressure off as right now all focus is on them. Agree completely run prevention should be in the cards through relief pitching. Sometimes the blow the arms out guys are needed when guys are on base. Hope to see a couple of them added behind Romano.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

By what metric has the Jays BP been one of the worst in baseball?

16th in fWAR
16th in K/9
13th in ERA
16th in xFIP

They have an average bullpen that needs way more swing and miss ability, but hardly one of the worst in baseball.

Not necessarily the worst in baseball, but it's at the bottom end of the playoff teams likely.

And come the postseason that's what matters.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not necessarily the worst in baseball, but it's at the bottom end of the playoff teams likely.

And come the postseason that's what matters.

Jays bullpen had a better ERA than both Philly and San Diego and now those teams are playing for a chance to go to the world series.

I agree the Jays should look for ways to improve the pen, I just took issue with the false narrative that their BP is one of the worst in baseball.

If they're going to spend more money and/or trade capital to improve the team somewhere, I'd prefer they add another top of the rotation starter.

[Kasi]

Pearson plus one FA I think is fine for adding to the bullpen. They have some up and coming names like Zulueta or others that might be able to chip in. (Not convinced Zulueta has enough of a pitch mix to be a starter but he could be a wipeout reliever)

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1583448307031949313

[bluejays]

Sounds like the talk of Schneider evaluations ongoing by Atkins was an unnecessary bargaining tactic. I don’t have a problem with the signing. Three years is standard and probably won’t be a hindrance if they need to replace him.

[browna]

They have to give him 3 years or it doesn't look good for organizational support.

He's not likely paid much in the manger world so yes, not a hindrance. But lack of playoffs the next two years (and probably not getting out of the first round if they make it) is almost cause for dismissal and Atkins can't be too far behind in that case.

Not how I would've handled it, to me reminds me of the Geoff Ward thing here where the new guy gets a postive inseason bump but long haul it doesn't work because players get too comfortable. Or more directly, extending Montoya last offseason because he almost got to the playoffs.
Scheidner seems like a good guy and smart baseball man but trusting him during this team window seems like path of least resistance more than the objective view of what the clubhouse needs to take it up a couple levels.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by browna

They have to give him 3 years or it doesn't look good for organizational support.

He's not likely paid much in the manger world so yes, not a hindrance. But lack of playoffs the next two years (and probably not getting out of the first round if they make it) is almost cause for dismissal and Atkins can't be too far behind in that case.

Not how I would've handled it, to me reminds me of the Geoff Ward thing here where the new guy gets a postive inseason bump but long haul it doesn't work because players get too comfortable. Or more directly, extending Montoya last offseason because he almost got to the playoffs.
Scheidner seems like a good guy and smart baseball man but trusting him during this team window seems like path of least resistance more than the objective view of what the clubhouse needs to take it up a couple levels.

I'm a little nonchalant on this. He hasn't done anything completely stupid. Sure some things can be second guessed, but there was a lot of "hunch" decisions that Montoyo continuously got wrong that annoyed most. Schneider seems to have his basics down right. I'm hoping behind the scenes he's a bit tougher on the guys, but who knows? I agree I'd like to see an older guy with experience brought in but the manager job is pretty easy and he seems to have it down right. I am concerned about the hitting coach and Pete Walker to a smaller degree. Walker has enough of a positive history of working with pitchers to do alright, so this year may have been bad luck. But the batting on the team was a disaster in my mind. I'd like some fresh person brought in with a new perspective on patience.

[Inferno]

Yep, I'd like to see them bring in a new hitting coach. Lack of patience has been a problem with them for a while. It's not like he's telling them to swing at everything but they need someone who can get them in the habit of swinging at the right pitch.

I wasn't completely opposed to bringing back Schneider but I wanted them to see what else was out their first and like browna said not pull a Flames with Ward. I'm not convinced they did that but now that it's done I hope it works out.