Bus Zone interferes with Driveway - Getting tickets

[BlackArcher101]

Are we looking at a situation like this, and your driveway is where the blue car is? Except in your case, the bus stop sign is on the other side of your driveway?

https://goo.gl/maps/MMh2VS9ZrpBdJUdNA

[timun]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Interesting. That means (on my street anyway) that many vehicles cannot legally park at all on the street as the distances between driveways is small enough that you would have trouble leaving 1.5m in front and behind the vehicle.

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Yeah, I'm having trouble with this one. How big is the average lot? Take 1.5m away from my driveway, I'm back near the neighbour's driveway, and can't park there as I would be encroaching on the 1.5 m rule. I am in a place with zero lot lines.

this seems to all but - in theory - eliminate street parking in a lot of areas.

Yes gents, that's right.

Here's a screenshot from Google Maps' satellite view of a random street in Hidden Valley, upon which I marked areas where one cannot park in red:



It's most of the street. Of the 50 or so properties in view there are only about a couple dozen on-street spaces, and obviously most of that is along the south side of Hidden Valley Ranch Crescent.

It's by design, frankly. Lots of people love suburban homes with attached garages and a driveway, and don't want people parking on the street. They think it makes the area look "cheap".

You should check out some of the 'burbs in the US with privately-owned roads and strong HOAs. Massively wide streets, no sidewalks, no parking. It's eerie.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Are we looking at a situation like this, and your driveway is where the blue car is? Except in your case, the bus stop sign is on the other side of your driveway?

https://goo.gl/maps/MMh2VS9ZrpBdJUdNA

I think that's what he's saying, only difference is that he is not parked like that blue car. Just to the right on your map is a Jeep that's parked how OP has his car though

[Jacks]

Are the old bolt holes still there from when they moved the sign?
I'd move it back, the transit driver will probably assume it was done by the city.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Yes, car is parked on street in front of driveway.

Is there a particular reference that anyone knows of regarding this? It seems pretty odd that bus zone could encompass a driveway, let alone be used an an actual stop. I’d post a picture by I’m technically challenged.

The bus zone doesn't encompass the driveway.
The bus zone encompasses the street that is in front of your driveway.
Regardless of whether there is a driveway there or not, you have no ownership of the street, and the bus zone can extend as far as the city sees fit.

Take the driveway out of the equation completely, where the driveway enters the street is completely irrelevant to the issue of how far the bus zone extends.

I suspect this could actually be your fault.
I suspect the sign was originally on the other side of your driveway because the city assumed no one would park in front of the driveway, so no need to extend the bus zone past it. If you are then typically parking in front of your driveway, the bus drivers could be having problems pulling out because of your car. So they move the bus zone past your driveway so they have enough room. Now instead of hoping you get tickets for parking in front of your own driveway (something you would likely have to call for), you're now parking in a bus zone, (something they can have you ticketed for).

So it's possible the city did you the courtesy of not putting the bus zone half way onto your front yard, but you obstructed the bus, so now they are doing what they need to do to remedy the problem (you obstructing busses pulling out).

That would be my guess anyway.

[81MC]

Let’s see if these work - don’t mind the grass, since this fiasco started, I have zero inclination to spend my money tending the grass around bus stop...that no one uses because they’re on my driveway instead.

My driveway is the bit of concrete on the left, 6 feet or so to the left of the sign. You can actually see the dead grass where people get on/off half the time.

The other photo is the actual bus stop/pad area, where the sign used to be. Call me crazy, but a bus using my driveway instead of this area is clearly in the wrong, and the bus zone encompassing my driveway is entirely arbitrary and a simple oversight.

I’ll pay a ticket for parking in front of my driveway, but that’s never ever been brought up. The infraction is always for parking in a bus zone, and even (the rather pleasant) lady on the phone confirms that’s rather silly.

[81MC]

K I actually don’t know how to post pictures.

But I’ll be as honest as possible: there is NO way a car in front of my driveway could even come close to interfering with a bus, even a full-size, if using the proper stop. If Transit saw fit to go through the fort of moving a sign rather and then ticketing me, rather than just ticketing me for blocking a driveway...that’s typical I suppose.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Forget the driveway, forget it's your own house, those no longer seem to be relevant to your ticket. Just assume that there's a long sidewalk on either side of the bus sign. If you still parked your car there, would you be in the bus zone?

Now assume someone else parked their car there, daily, every day, would you have issues with that? Anywhere you park on the streets is open to anyone else (subject to parking permit and parking pay).

[pseudoreality]

Can I ask why you are parking on street instead of on your property? As others have mentioned, you have no right to park on the street, regardless of it being adjacent to your property or directly in front of your driveway.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Forget the driveway, forget it's your own house, those no longer seem to be relevant to your ticket. Just assume that there's a long sidewalk on either side of the bus sign. If you still parked your car there, would you be in the bus zone?

Now assume someone else parked their car there, daily, every day, would you have issues with that? Anywhere you park on the streets is open to anyone else (subject to parking permit and parking pay).

A driveway is kind of the important part, no? As in, can a bus zone actually block a driveway, and is it right that a privately paid for and maintained driveway is used as a bus stop, in spite of appropriate infrastructure mere feet away.

I can’t of anywhere else in the entire city I have ever seen a driveway or laneway access be a bus zone. If anyone of you happen to know of one, Let me know. I have to think this is the only property in Calgary where this is the case, but if I’m wrong I’ll eat crow.

As for why I park on the street? The same reason everyone does?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by 81MC

A driveway is kind of the important part, no?

No, nothing at all. Your ticket is for parking in a bus zone.

Originally Posted by 81MC

As in, can a bus zone actually block a driveway, and is it right that a privately paid for and maintained driveway is used as a bus stop, in spite of appropriate infrastructure mere feet away.

Yes, the Traffic Engineer can establish a bus zone. The bus zone allows buses to stop there. They established one outside your house, I don't think there's anything stopping them.

Originally Posted by 81MC

I can’t of anywhere else in the entire city I have ever seen a driveway or laneway access be a bus zone. If anyone of you happen to know of one, Let me know. I have to think this is the only property in Calgary where this is the case, but if I’m wrong I’ll eat crow.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0733...7i13312!8i6656

Like this? Still not quite sure I have a picture of what's happening for you.

Originally Posted by 81MC

As for why I park on the street? The same reason everyone does?

I never asked this. I asked if you would be mad if someone else parked where you did. If you can park somewhere (legally), anyone else can too. Just want to make sure this won't be a careful what you wish for situation and then find out your neighbour takes the spot you're fighting for.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by timun

It's by design, frankly. Lots of people love suburban homes with attached garages and a driveway, and don't want people parking on the street. They think it makes the area look "cheap".

You should check out some of the 'burbs in the US with privately-owned roads and strong HOAs. Massively wide streets, no sidewalks, no parking. It's eerie.

It's racist. The word to use here is racist. Communities like those you described were designed specifically to keep those people out.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Here's one where the bus zone takes up two driveways:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0768...7i13312!8i6656

I might not have accurate picture in mind of what's happening in your specific situation so correct me if I'm wrong, but bus zones in front of driveways is not at all unusual like this.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by 81MC

A driveway is kind of the important part, no? As in, can a bus zone actually block a driveway, and is it right that a privately paid for and maintained driveway is used as a bus stop, in spite of appropriate infrastructure mere feet away.

I can’t of anywhere else in the entire city I have ever seen a driveway or laneway access be a bus zone. If anyone of you happen to know of one, Let me know. I have to think this is the only property in Calgary where this is the case, but if I’m wrong I’ll eat crow.

As for why I park on the street? The same reason everyone does?

Your driveway isn't being used as a bus stop. The portion of the road that has been designated as a bus zone is not your property, there is also a very good chance that you have to cross city property in order to access your driveway. This is not unique, here is one.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9168...7i13312!8i6656

[GGG]

It sounds like one of the issues is that people stand around on the sidewalk in front of his driveway waiting for the bus because that is where the bus stop sign is now so when the bus comes to pick people up in blocks his driveway.

This seems to be something reasonable to be annoyed at when there is a developed bus stop pad away from his driveway that was specifically designed for people to wait at. I agree he doesn’t have much chance fighting the ticket.

One way to fix the issue might be to install a bench at the original pad.

Or if (and this is likely illegal) if the sign base from the original spot is still in the ground move the sign. I have no idea what the consequences would be from doing this so it’s probably a bad idea.

[chubeyr1]

81C if you park in a designated bus zone you will get a ticket. Does not matter where the bus zone is, if you park in it you will be fined.

That being said if I understand you correctly the bus zone is in front of your property. I would petition the city to have the zone moved. Contact your MLA’s office.

Yet I would not use the beef that you are getting tickets parking in front of your driveway ( in a bus zone ) as the point. You will lose every time with that argument.

I would say the bus zone causes hardship. Busses block me exiting/entering as well as transit customers. This causes a safety issue.

Good luck!

Side note: Is it Busses or Buses? I googled that and got mixed results.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

You either got a bus driver that complained about your car or the parking authority was in the area for something else and gave you a ticket. You’re not allowed to block a driveway (even your own), but if you block your own you don’t usually get a ticket because you aren’t going to complain about it to the CPA.

Years ago I learned that bus drivers are ruthless. I lived down south at one point and took the train downtown from the Shawnessy station. I bought a new car one day and the next day I went to work later in the morning so the train lot was full but down the road, behind the Canadian Tire, there was a parking spot on the street. Unfortunately the spot was in front of a bus zone and I parked my car outside of the sign as much as I could. It ended up that my bumper was in the bus zone side of the sign so I was a few inches into the bus zone. I didn't think it would be a big deal but a driver must have called it in because my car was at the impound lot when I came back that afternoon. It was not cool.

[81MC]

Thanks guys,
So clearly I am wrong - there is nothing at all prohibiting a bus zone from blocking a driveway, and I wouldn’t legally be able to park in front of it anyway. That’s on me, and I’ll accept it.

But I’m still super annoyed that the dedicated infrastructure isn’t being used when it’s literally feet away from the driveway.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

The bus zone doesn't encompass the driveway.
The bus zone encompasses the street that is in front of your driveway.
Regardless of whether there is a driveway there or not, you have no ownership of the street, and the bus zone can extend as far as the city sees fit.

Take the driveway out of the equation completely, where the driveway enters the street is completely irrelevant to the issue of how far the bus zone extends.

I suspect this could actually be your fault.
I suspect the sign was originally on the other side of your driveway because the city assumed no one would park in front of the driveway, so no need to extend the bus zone past it. If you are then typically parking in front of your driveway, the bus drivers could be having problems pulling out because of your car. So they move the bus zone past your driveway so they have enough room. Now instead of hoping you get tickets for parking in front of your own driveway (something you would likely have to call for), you're now parking in a bus zone, (something they can have you ticketed for).

So it's possible the city did you the courtesy of not putting the bus zone half way onto your front yard, but you obstructed the bus, so now they are doing what they need to do to remedy the problem (you obstructing busses pulling out).

That would be my guess anyway.

This makes sense. Also, if you're getting multiple tickets, someone is likely informing bylaw of the offence. The bus driver?

[topfiverecords]

Is a bus pad a place where the bus hangs out with his bus buds after the bars close and where he hopes to one day take a lady/boy bus to for good bus times after having cocktails?

Does DJ Bus come over and spin Wheels on The Bus?