Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[puckedoff]

It wasn't shot in black and white so it has no relevence here

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

It wasn't shot in black and white so it has no relevence here

Maybe the suspect was an easy target after being frozen in fear at the sight of those terrifying police cars

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

I honestly don't know why this is being debated. They are police officers, and their job does not change with the color of their vehicles.

Your experience with any given CPS constable, regardless of him/her being a "bad apple" or a "good apple" is going to be exactly the same, whether the color of the cruiser is black, white, blue, yellow, pink, or lavender.

They're the same people that are going to respond when you call 911, or pull you over for speeding. I don't see how it makes a difference.

With all due respect, I genuinely don't understand that point of view. If you have a five year old son, he's likely going to be fascinated with the flashing red and blue lights every time he sees a police car. Whether that car is black or white bears no difference in his mind. As long as that officer isn't wrestling with a suspect, he's still going to smile and shake the kid's hand all the same.

I've brought this up in this thread before, but if there's a citizen who needs immediate help, for whatever reason, and he/she spots a passing police cruiser, they're going to flag down that officer and shout for help, no matter what the color of the vehicle is.

That being said, this has been debated for who knows how long, and no one in this thread is really going to change their point of view. Some people think the new cruisers look aggressive, and some don't. I think part of that perspective comes from how that particular vehicle (Ford Police Interceptor) looks in black, compared to the 'less sleek' look of the Crown Victoria. Compare that with the new Dodge Charger, which could be perceived as "aggressive looking", no matter what color it is.

I personally don't understand how a piece of metal with four wheels and an engine could be viewed as "menacing", but everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But how much does the color of your local police vehicles really affect your life?

The CPS has purchased the vehicles, and changed the livery...so what? A cop car is a cop car. And they're not going to change the design just because some people on an online forum think they should.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...does it really matter?

Really? You dont understand 'how something looks' can change someone's perception of that thing?

Well...better tell marketing departments all across the world to pack up their stuff.

I know what you're getting at, and I posted a few pages back that I totally agreed with that when they brought them in, and now I've changed my mind with time and experience.

They look aggressive. And if you want to see the downside of aggressive law enforcement, be that aggression real, perceived or otherwise, just look south.

All people have been saying is that the police went and made a conscious decision to change how they are being perceived and what their public image is going to be, and that is what it is, most people see the car not the cop, and that public perception has escalated in aggression.

I think most police officers would like the benefit of a positive public perception before going into any situation so it makes it seem like we're all on the same side here and it makes people more cooperative.

[rayne008]

It looks like you really have to screw up to be fired from the CPO.

This article has many more details about the stolen rifle case than I was not aware of.

CBC News Article


"In April 2015, Baker ignored all CPS policies when he took the rifle and left it in his car — despite admitting he was "well aware" of the transportation and storage policies.

At that time, the five-year officer had been assigned to desk duty for four months, facing six charges of negligence of duty for incomplete reports and evidence found in his duty bag."

So basically this guy was on desk duty for incompetence, and was signing out this rifle every night to play guns, but on this day decides to grabs drinks with his sister at Schanks and leave the rifle case in the back seat of his Suburu! No worries tho, he covered it with his jacket. (Along with the rest of his CD's)

Oh yeah, daddy is on CPS as well.

I can believe they didn't make a clear example of this guy that this type of behavior will not be tolerated.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

I guess what I'm trying to say is...does it really matter?

Absolutely. And I say that as someone who has made a career of understanding and pairing colors for my clients.

Why do they matter? Let me go on a rant….

1. Colors can, and often should, serve a purpose. They allow us to quickly scan and isolate important elements, and impart meaning. When you look for a taxi, you scan for a yellow car. When you look to close a browser window, you look for the red button. When you need to show a warning of some sort, you tend to use orange.

In terms of a public sector context, this utility is even more important, as color can aid citizens in terms of identification and appropriate action. When I hear a siren, and look in my mirror, it’s much easier to spot a red fire truck than a black fire truck. When I see a stopped yellow school bus, I know to watch out for kids. Public services are meant to be seen, and the police should be no different.

The reality is that blacks/greys cars tend to recede into the background, and in our world where every car is either silver, black, or white, they are harder to pick out. At night especially, these colors recede into the background. A police car should be like a lighthouse…it should be a beacon of safety and re-assurance. A black car with black wheels does the opposite of this. Instead of being seen, it hides in the shadows. The proverbial kid looking for help might not even seen your black cop car or black uniformed officer...or be intimidated enough to not seek the help.

Which brings me to my next point.


2. Every brand should utilize colors that encourage a desirable reaction. The reality is that whether you believe it or not, colors have meanings and evoke certain responses. They might not always be overt or obvious responses, but they can be powerful. Yellows tend to suggest happiness and energy, reds suggest passion and aggression etc. If you don’t believe me, just look at the world around you. There’s a reason why you go to a hospital and find colors on the walls that are meant to soothe. Theres a reason the corporate world loves blue, or why many environmental products are tied to greens. There’s a reason why brands like Coca Cola will spend millions ensuring protecting the exact color of their red. It's because color matters.

Black too comes with a lot of baggage. Now while a black car or uniform does not make a policeman evil or unapproachable, it certainly doesn’t invite people in either.

Personally, I’d much rather we play the positive aspects of policing than the negatives. In my experience, the best cops are the ones who want to be seen, are ok with being identified as cops, and who look to integrate themselves into society. That's why I think the police should have an easily identifiable and bright color scheme…like a bright blue or neon green. The should not only been seen, but be overt in their intention to want to be seen.

[Locke]

That was a much better (and less snarky) explanation. My only complaint is that Table5 has spent too much time in the south.

Its spelled 'colour.'

My colour has a 'u' in it.

#neverforgettheu

[Bill Bumface]

Even if you take perceptions out of it, if I'm looking for a police officer to help me, I find the current cars blend in a lot more.

Although not as "cool" looking, and probably more expensive to paint/decal, the EU model for police cars is sure a lot easier to pick out in a crowd:

Spoiler!

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Table 5

2. Every brand should utilize colors that encourage a desirable reaction. The reality is that whether you believe it or not, colors have meanings and evoke certain responses. They might not always be overt or obvious responses, but they can be powerful. Yellows tend to suggest happiness and energy, reds suggest passion and aggression etc. If you don’t believe me, just look at the world around you. There’s a reason why you go to a hospital and find colors on the walls that are meant to soothe. Theres a reason the corporate world loves blue, or why many environmental products are tied to greens. There’s a reason why brands like Coca Cola will spend millions ensuring protecting the exact color of their red. It's because color matters.

Couldn't have said it better myself. You wrote exactly what I wanted to say except you did it better then I ever could. Colour absolutely does matter and anyone who says it doesn't is kidding themselves.

At one point I too was on the ''I don't care about colour'' side. But earlier this year I sat down with a co-worker to work on a presentation and he gave me a lesson on the psychology of colours and whether I wanted to believe it or not, certain colours invoke certain reactions in people. Red is my favourite colour, but there is a reason you don't see it on advertisements that want to reflect tranquillity or calmness. Millions of dollars are invested by all sorts of companies worldwide to find the perfect colour scheme for their products. So again, colour absolutely does matter.

CPS can say all they want about black not mattering and it's not militarised. That's a load of horse BS. Their colour scheme was without a doubt precisely chosen to be that way to invoke a feeling of aggressiveness, stealth and power to those who come across it.

"Don't mess with us".

[Locke]

And this is where I would rant on excessive public expenditures.

Do the police need a Ferrari? I'm upset that they have pickup trucks. What are they throwing in the back?

I remember being livid that CPS had a Hummer until I found out it was donated.

Its just not a disciplined use of the budget.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

CPS can say all they want about black not mattering and it's not militarised. That's a load of horse BS. Their colour scheme was without a doubt precisely chosen to be that way to invoke a feeling of aggressiveness, stealth and power to those who come across it.

That might be a result, but it's absolutely not the reason.

I'm not a fan of the black and white either, my favourite police livery is the military police and would love for the CPS to go with something like that, but suggesting that they chose black and white just to be more intimidating is stupid. The real reasons have been posted here time and time again yet people choose to ignore it

[Fuzz]

The problem is they probably got flown down to the US for some sales conference in an airport hanger full of menacing looking military vehicles and cop cars. Testosterone flowed, they said, "oh ya, that one looks badass!" and signed the order paper. I can't imagine much more thought than that went into it.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

And this is where I would rant on excessive public expenditures.

Do the police need a Ferrari? I'm upset that they have pickup trucks. What are they throwing in the back?

I remember being livid that CPS had a Hummer until I found out it was donated.

Its just not a disciplined use of the budget.

ne'er-do-wells

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by btimbit

That might be a result, but it's absolutely not the reason

I find that very hard to believe. No one on the entire decision making committee who chose these colours found it to be aggressive at all? No one found it to look a tad intimidating? CPS might have it's faults, but they aren't stupid. I believe they, at the very least, had an idea of the kind of reaction it would receive.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Couldn't have said it better myself. You wrote exactly what I wanted to say except you did it better then I ever could. Colour absolutely does matter and anyone who says it doesn't is kidding themselves.

At one point I too was on the ''I don't care about colour'' side. But earlier this year I sat down with a co-worker to work on a presentation and he gave me a lesson on the psychology of colours and whether I wanted to believe it or not, certain colours invoke certain reactions in people. Red in my favourite colour, but there is a reason you don't see it on advertisements that want to reflect tranquillity or calmness. Millions of dollars are invested by all sorts of companies worldwide to find the perfect colour scheme for their products. So again, colour absolutely does matter.

CPS can say all they want about black not mattering and it's not militarised. That's a load of horse BS. Their colour scheme was without a doubt precisely chosen to be that way to invoke a feeling of aggressiveness, stealth and power to those who come across it.

I'll go back to something I said a few weeks ago: I was in Lethbridge not long ago and they have the same cars with the same paint scheme but with a normal ride height (not nose-down) they have normal coloured wheels and they dont have the bush-bars on the front.

Its a start.

[Table 5]

I think in the end, the intent is much less important than the effect. CPS might have a whole list of reasons why they don't think their livery is intimidating, but they are still be swimming upstream when it comes to the practical and psychological effects of black.

Originally Posted by Locke

Its spelled 'colour.'

Funnily enough, I spelled it color even before I went south. What can I say, I'm a fan of efficiency?

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Although not as "cool" looking, and probably more expensive to paint/decal, the EU model for police cars is sure a lot easier to pick out in a crowd:

That's one thing that was disappointing to read about that Herald article. Even though they are reviewing the colors, they will only be doing benchmarks against other Canadian/USA forces...who are almost all cut from the same cloth. They should be looking globally to see what works best, not south to a country with perhaps the highest crime rate in the 1st world.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I find that very hard to believe. No one on the entire decision making committee who chose these colours found it to be aggressive at all? No one found it to look a tad intimidating? CPS might have it's faults, but they aren't stupid. I believe they, at the very least, had an idea of the kind of reaction it would receive.

Again, the reasons they switched

-Identity: Police agencies across the US and Canada all made the switch in the last decade, citing familiarity. Began with a US homeland security suggestion that all agencies go the these colours so that there was more similarities so the cars would look close to the same in different areas. That suggestion gained traction down south and trickled down into the supply as well. The idea was, no matter where you are, you see a black and white car, you know immediately it's the police. This caught on in Canada, with some agencies in Ontario switching in 2007, and over the next 5 years more and more started doing it as well such as Calgary, Edmonton, Victoria, Vancouver, Saint John, OPP and more.

-Cost: Buying a Black car and vinyl wrapping the door, then doing simple graphics, was much cheaper that the old design. Between $500 to $1000 per car, depending on the vehicle.


-Classic look: Going retro is all the rage these days, from sports jersey's to fashion. Police services across the continent, including Calgary, have used black and white in the past.

Now, all that said, like table 5 just mentioned that covers intent, but not result. I still think it's stupid that people find it more intimidating but I will admit that it can certainly have that effect on people. I've never liked the black and white simply because it looks american and I'd prefer we have our own identity. But do we really need to throw thousands of dollars at this to change it again? Also, where were all of these negative opinions when the black and white first came out 3 years ago, and they were looking for feedback?

Again, I'd like for them to go for a simple effective look like the military police, but even more I'd prefer people to stop spending time and money on something so stupid and move on.

There are plenty of legitimate complaints to have against the police these days there's no need to make one up and try to claim they made this change on purpose to scare people.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by Locke

Do the police need a Ferrari? I'm upset that they have pickup trucks. What are they throwing in the back?

Just to touch on this, they started the F-150's as a pilot project, and are slowly switching all the Explorer SUV's to the pickups because, and this is what the news article said...

- Apparently the F-150's cost less to buy, and are more fuel-efficient than the Explorers (not sure to how much of an extent this is true, but I guess it could be partly due to the fact that AB gets large inventories of pickups compared to SUV's)

- Higher ride height, allowing the officers to have a better view of the road ahead

- And apparently the rank and file liked the trucks because they have more interior room, especially considering all the gear the cops cram into their vehicles

That's what I remember, but I'd have to dig up the news story to see exactly what it said.

Originally Posted by Locke

I'll go back to something I said a few weeks ago: I was in Lethbridge not long ago and they have the same cars with the same paint scheme but with a normal ride height (not nose-down) they have normal coloured wheels and they dont have the bush-bars on the front.

Its a start.

I don't think the ride height is customizable on these cars, it's usually fairly standard.

CPS and LRPS use exactly the same model for their new vehicles, they both have black wheels (standard from Ford), and the color schemes are both black and white, so I don't really understand your point.

That being said, however, I will admit that the push bumper (which LRPS does NOT use) gives it that 'nose down' look.

Lethbridge

Spoiler!

Lethbridge (high res, but rear view only)

Spoiler!

Calgary

Spoiler!

Calgary (before the push bumper or any lights were installed)

Spoiler!

I can see how the push bumper affects the look...and to be honest, I don't really know why they installed them. The only logical explanation I can think of is that it makes it easier to mount the extra lights and the siren speaker on the front of the car.

CPS has a no-pursuits policy, and I don't see why the brass would allow cops to smash up the bumpers of their brand new cars by PIT'ing a fleeing car.

btimbit outlined the reasons for the switch...while someone may have seen "looking badass" as a side benefit, I don't believe for a second that they actually intended to scare people.

Like btimbit said, there wasn't much opposition to this when the pilot project started. In fact, the only reactions I read at the time were positive ones...and these were news and Facebook comments, lol. But as soon as we hear about rifles being left in personal vehicles or a suspect being shot by police, all of a sudden, they're robocops with intimidating vehicles.

Aside from the push bumper on the front, how is a CPS Interceptor more aggressive-looking than an LRPS one? They're both black with white doors, are they not?

We could go back and forth on this forever, and never reach a consensus. This is probably the stupidest thing to argue over...although the internet has done worse!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

Just to touch on this, they started the F-150's as a pilot project, and are slowly switching all the Explorer SUV's to the pickups because, and this is what the news article said...

- Apparently the F-150's cost less to buy, and are more fuel-efficient than the Explorers (not sure to how much of an extent this is true, but I guess it could be partly due to the fact that AB gets large inventories of pickups compared to SUV's)

- Higher ride height, allowing the officers to have a better view of the road ahead

- And apparently the rank and file liked the trucks because they have more interior room, especially considering all the gear the cops cram into their vehicles

That's what I remember, but I'd have to dig up the news story to see exactly what it said.



I don't know think the ride height is customizable on these cars, it's usually fairly standard.

CPS and LRPS use exactly the same model for their new vehicles, they both have black wheels (standard from Ford), and the color schemes are both black and white, so I don't really understand your point. That being said, however, I will admit that the push bumper gives it that 'nose down' look.

Lethbridge

Spoiler!

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_f..._620/image.jpg

Lethbridge (high res, but rear view only)

Spoiler!

Calgary

Spoiler!

Calgary (before the push bumper was installed)

Spoiler!

I can see how the push bumper affects the look...and to be honest, I don't really know why they installed them. The only logical explanation I can think of is that it makes it easier to mount the extra lights and the siren speaker on the front of the car.

CPS has a no-pursuits policy, and I don't see why the brass would allow cops to smash up the bumpers of their brand new cars by PIT'ing a fleeing car.

btimbit outlined the reasons for the switch...while someone may have seen "looking badass" as a side benefit, I don't believe for a second that they actually intended to scare people.

Like btimbit said, there wasn't much opposition to this when the pilot project started. In fact, the only reactions I read at the time were positive ones...and these were news and Facebook comments, lol. But as soon as we hear about rifles being left in personal vehicles or a suspect being shot by police, all of a sudden, they're robocops with intimidating vehicles.

Aside from the push bumper on the front, how is a CPS Interceptor more aggressive-looking than an LRPS one? They're both black with white doors, are they not?

We could go back and forth on this forever, and never reach a consensus. This is probably the stupidest thing to argue over...although the internet has done worse!

Oh I get it. I'll be the first person to put my hand up and admit I'm one of them.

When I saw the cars my first instinct was: "Sweeeeet!!! They look awesome!"

Its just that over time my opinion on that changed when I realized that we really dont want our Police to be primarily intimidating.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its just that over time my opinion on that changed when I realized that we really dont want our Police to be primarily intimidating.

Eh, ask 100 people and you'll get 100 different answers, lol.

For instance, I was in Paris a couple years ago (and this was before all of Europe became on high alert because of reasons), and there were cops all around the area of the Eiffel Tower and other tourist attractions.

They were just on normal foot patrols, but they were all carrying rifles. Personally, I'd find that more intimidating than a badass-looking vehicle.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

Eh, ask 100 people and you'll get 100 different answers, lol.

For instance, I was in Paris a couple years ago (and this was before all of Europe became on high alert because of reasons), and there were cops all around the area of the Eiffel Tower and other tourist attractions.

They were just on normal foot patrols, but they were all carrying rifles. Personally, I'd find that more intimidating than a badass-looking vehicle.

I'd agree...but they were also bombed.

Bombs have a tendency to escalate tensions.