"But if they did that we probably wouldn’t be in the race we currently are for mass EV adoption. It’s like uber. Sure they are losing a ton of money but at least they triggered change to the broken system."
What does that have to do with their place as an industry leader?
But if they did that we probably wouldn’t be in the race we currently are for mass EV adoption. It’s like uber. Sure they are losing a ton of money but at least they triggered change to the broken system.
I'm sure the 3000 people losing their jobs can take comfort in that.
probably only the first in a series of cuts.
I don't think this is a problem isolated to Tesla. There is a massive global credit crunch coming. The answer to the last recession was to borrow and spend a bunch of money. Now everyone seems to be putting their head in the sand about what's coming up. In the coming years, there just aren't going to be as many people who think it's a great idea to borrow money from a HELOC and spend $50k on a Tesla. 2017 was a record year for auto (and many other kinds of sales), and personal debt continued to soar.
It's a losing formula, and Tesla's business model is based around future sales. I don't think they'll be the only casualty here.
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Isn't that mostly just applicable to the early model 3s? I though the other models were pretty solid?
I’m no expert, but from what I’ve read, this is probably the case. Quality at the start of model 3 production was hit or miss - some were good, sone were not. Later on, as it has ramped up, it’s improved. Tesla is actually fixing the problems generally, and not just leaving or were with poor quality at the beginning. Model S and X have always been high quality.
As far as driver experience, almost everything I’ve read is owners saying the experience is the best out of any car they have had, miles ahead of anyone else.
You are correct that Tesla has been a Guinea Pig and doing so by getting hefty rebates and Government assistance, but whats likely going to happen is that businesses with most of the groundwork already laid are going to just come in and copy whats taken Tesla years to develop from scratch.
They have their market share, sure, but once those Government subsidies dry up, and its happening fast, they are going to be in trouble.
I believe my comment said what they need to transition to to survive. They have to maintain the leadership role. I think people do underestimate what technology Tesla has in their labs. It's not something another company is going to simply recreate. It really isn't.
They aren't surviving on the backs of consumer subsidies. It's a hurdle but people aren't buying the cars because of a subsidy and it was a known phase out once they sold 200,000 cars. Now their have certainly been business subsidies as well...ones that are available to others if they want. And let's not pretend that the entire industry is heavily subsidized no matter what company. I've seen analyses done that suggest the subsidies they have are far less than the bulk of the auto industry or the fossil fuel industry.
But they were profitable Q3. They do need to string those profits together and have the profits increase. If they can do that that will given them the chance to focus on maintaining the tech lead. I'm not saying it's not a challenge but it's also not a foregone conclusion they are DOA.
I believe my comment said what they need to transition to to survive. They have to maintain the leadership role. I think people do underestimate what technology Tesla has in their labs. It's not something another company is going to simply recreate. It really isn't.
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I'm just curious then, what part of the tech is unique that they have that no others don't already have, or couldn't develop in 5 years?
Isn't that mostly just applicable to the early model 3s? I though the other models were pretty solid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed
I’m no expert, but from what I’ve read, this is probably the case. Quality at the start of model 3 production was hit or miss - some were good, sone were not. Later on, as it has ramped up, it’s improved. Tesla is actually fixing the problems generally, and not just leaving or were with poor quality at the beginning. Model S and X have always been high quality.
As far as driver experience, almost everything I’ve read is owners saying the experience is the best out of any car they have had, miles ahead of anyone else.
I haven't ready, watched or seen in person anything that makes me think the X and S are quality vehicles. I saw an X in the parking lot the other day and the panel gaps were big and uneven. It's amateur hour over there compared to the other manufacturers.
Tesla tanked in Consumer Reports' 2018 survey of vehicle reliability. The Tesla Model S and Model X were both rated as below-average dependability — "much worse than average" for the Model X — in the group's latest survey of vehicle owners.
That said, if I had unlimited funds, I'd probably buy one just for the auto pilot. I'd love that in traffic, although other manufacturers are catching up on that, too.
I find Elon Musk to be a bit of a snakeoil salesman. I wouldn't be surprised if later on it comes to light the guy was just scamming everyone and getting rich off it.
And just my opinion, but dude has a face of a serial killer. If one day Amber Heard goes missing, I'd say check Elon's basement.
I find Elon Musk to be a bit of a snakeoil salesman. I wouldn't be surprised if later on it comes to light the guy was just scamming everyone and getting rich off it.
And just my opinion, but dude has a face of a serial killer. If one day Amber Heard goes missing, I'd say check Elon's basement.
oh he's gotten filthy rich, but he has legit accomplishments. he's got smartest man in the room syndrome.
I would say he's one of the world's biggest narcissists, though.
bet he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)
I find Elon Musk to be a bit of a snakeoil salesman. I wouldn't be surprised if later on it comes to light the guy was just scamming everyone and getting rich off it.
And just my opinion, but dude has a face of a serial killer. If one day Amber Heard goes missing, I'd say check Elon's basement.
I don't think it's snake oil. I mean, look at SpaceX. He managed to do what no other billionaire(Branson, Bezos) and major company like Boeing could pull off. He also had the vision for Paypal, and decided he wanted to make electric cars, which he has done.
He obviously has some major question marks, like the solar roof, and dumb stuff like the Boring Co. But I don't think they should take away to much from what he has achieved. You need the crazies to push the limits, and he's a pretty good for that.
The thing with Tesla, other than their autopilot, is there isn't really anything unique. Electric motors and batteries aren't anything special. Any manufacturer can get to where Tesla is in 5 years if they commit to it. But they also have the global infrastructure, brand, workforce etc to blow Tesla away when they get there.
The one thing that Tesla has though is desirability. They are the only American car brand that has true luxury cache to compete on the level of the Germans and Lexus, and thus should be able to charge premium prices. Ford and GM have been struggling with that for decades now. It's not something you can buy or scale up to.
I think electric cars are sucking out all the fun of cars, but I would like to see Tesla succeed in the long-term. I like seeing companies who takes true risks get rewarded.
The one thing that Tesla has though is desirability. They are the only American car brand that has true luxury cache to compete on the level of the Germans and Lexus, and thus should be able to charge premium prices. Ford and GM have been struggling with that for decades now. It's not something you can buy or scale up to.
I think electric cars are sucking out all the fun of cars, but I would like to see Tesla succeed in the long-term. I like seeing companies who takes true risks get rewarded.
Do you think in 5 years, if MB, BMW, Lexus, Volvo etc have electric power trains, that people would still chose a Tesla though? I'm dubious about that. The car industry is full of innovators that got run over once the big guys caught up.
I get that today, Tesla is the obvious choice for a unique vehicle with an electric power train. I'm just not sure that's going to be the case going forward.
Do you think in 5 years, if MB, BMW, Lexus, Volvo etc have electric power trains, that people would still chose a Tesla though? I'm dubious about that. The car industry is full of innovators that got run over once the big guys caught up.
I get that today, Tesla is the obvious choice for a unique vehicle with an electric power train. I'm just not sure that's going to be the case going forward.
Volvo will be full electric come 2020 if I remember correctly.
No, not full electric. I believe they said have some electric component, so that could range from mild hybrid to full EV.
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Volvo said Wednesday that starting in two years, its cars will be electric, plug-in hybrids or mild hybrids. Between 2019 and 2021, Volvo will launch three fully electric cars and two high-performance electric cars from Polestar, which will be spun off into a separate premium car company. Volvo said these five cars “will be supplemented by a range of petrol and diesel plug in hybrid and mild hybrid 48 volt options on all models.”
