Star Wars

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

They just need a holiday special where they all take turns spitting on a picture of Johnson and then announcing they are retconning the sequels and starting fresh.

Can we go full circle to the original holiday special and have Chewie looking at porn?

[#-3]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

Here's a question then: do you think it would be possible for them to create a Clone Wars-esque show that could redeem the sequel trilogy?

I did like the Duel of the Fates graphic novel that was posted here a while ago. Generally I'm against retconning entire films, But I think they would have to just pretend IX didn't happen and play that story out.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Nothing can redeem the prequels and nothing can redeem the sequels. They’re both awful in different ways. Just because they can make shows that take place during these periods, they do nothing to improve the films.

[dino7c]

Revenge of the Sith is good, gets lumped in with the other two

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

They did try with Resistance, but it was just as disjointed and confusing, and the main character was unlikeable and they cancelled it after 2 seasons.

Was that done by Filoni and Favreau? I didn't watch it as it looked a bit tailored to younger audiences, even more so than Clone Wars and Rebels were said to be.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Nothing can redeem the prequels and nothing can redeem the sequels. They’re both awful in different ways. Just because they can make shows that take place during these periods, they do nothing to improve the films.

I appreciate your opinion on the matter but I'll disagree with you on the prequels. I thought Clone Wars was great at bridging the movies together in an interesting way.

Also I'm of the opinion that the Sequels can't be saved, but it's nice to think about how much work they would have to put in for it to happen.

[BigT112]

I love the prequals and I think they have aged very well. Say what you will, they tell the most coherent story of the three trilogies. They were the Star Wars movies that were new when I was a kid, they were meant for my generation. So maybe there's that nostalgia. Some of the concepts are silly (midi-chlorians anyone) but there is some really silly stuff done in the OT that people give a pass to fairly easily.

The sequels are a lazy tire fire of storytelling and just prove Disney was in it for a quick and easy buck.

[direwolf]

The prequels are terrible films. Always have been and always will be.

[djsFlames]

Prequels are nowhere near as bad as the sequels

If you can stomach the corny jester characters and some odd lines at least some can have some fun with the prequels. Even for meme spotting its alright, and it is SW through and through.

The sequels are an insult to the franchise, made by people that don't understand the franchise or tried to turn it into something else, with VII being the only passable entry.

[Coach]

Yeah, the prequels at least try to tell a cohesive narrative, and have some technological achievements in filmmaking (including Jar Jar Binks). The sequels have boring characters with no arcs and a story that goes nowhere.

[CaptainCrunch]

The Sequels and Prequels


Phantom Menace - I thought was a weak entry, saved by Palpatine in the background. I wish they would have made Anakin older and more jaded, and really emphasized the slavery aspect. Over reliance on CGI made things muddled. Ewan and Ian were stellar in the movie. Natalie already looked checked out. Maul was amazingly cool.

The Force Awakens - A decent but not stellar movie. Was basically a retelling of a New Hope with a bigger Death Star. The acting performances were strong. What hamstrung the movie was the villains. Kylo was more a angsty teenager with Daddy issues. Hux was actually good in a limited role as was Snoke. Had a lot of interesting questions around Ray.



Attack of the Clones - Went off of the rails, too much CGI, also some just horrific dialogue around Sand. I liked that we started going down the path of Anakin's fall. You didn't get a lot of Palpatine, but you could really see him maneuvering things behind the scene. Chris Lee was excellent as Dooku. Ewan was great. Hayden was wooden as was Natalie


The Last Jedi - As a stand alone movie it could be passible. Instead we got a muddle mess with really bad scripting, bad knock knock jokes. A stupid disconnected Rose story that felt Forced. They killed the big bad and left Kylo as a pretty weak villain. Luke was completely out of character til the end. Rian tossed out a lot of story lines, like who were Ray's parents. Phasma looked cool and went out like a punk.


Revenge of the Sith - I for the most part liked the movie. We got the high points of Sidious and the fall of the Republic. Some bad dialogue choices. Padme lost the will to live. But I expect that they couldn't have Anakin slaughtering his wife, though they'd already had him as a kid Killer. Again too much CGI reliance. This is a movie that should have been split into two movies and it would have been better.



The Rise of Skywalkers - Completely awful. They tried to fix Rian's choices and instead thought that bringing back Sidious and ramming a stick up his butt would re-engage the fans. Tremendously bad dialogue and nonsensical creations like Force Diades or whatever the F that was. And Sith Wayfinders Killed Hux as a stupid throwaway. The ending of Palpatine was awful, if only Luke had thought about crossing the streams in Return of the Jedi. The acting wasn't great. It felt like most of the cast read the script and went WTF, and just went with it.



To me, when they come on TV, I'll absolutely watch the OT. With the prequels I'll make time for ROTS, and I will still watch Phantom Menace for the background stories, I'll watch AOTC because Clones man. With the Prequels if they come on, I'll watch TFA. I can barely get through TLJ, and I've watched TRS twice and have no interest in seeing it again.


While I think the Prequels are incredibly flawed, I love the over arching story. I think the Sequels were a unoriginal opening movie story followed by two pretty terrible entries.



Original Trilogy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prequel Trilogy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sequel Trilogy.

[Ashartus]

The only way to save the sequels would be for Luke or Rey to wake up after their vision from the force of what could happen and set out to make sure things don't happen that way.

[djsFlames]

Over time I have come around to the forest fight between Rey & Finn vs Kylo. I thought it was good because the fighting styles seemed accurate when you account for Rey's inexperience but rage and Kylo being injured pre-fight. The motivations were there and the atmosphere was pretty cool. It was right before everything went to #### plotwise, and a nice culmination of the third act in the film.

I can live with TFA but all the trilogy has going for it are the projections of what TFA could have led into.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Over time I have come around to the forest fight between Rey & Finn vs Kylo. I thought it was good because the fighting styles seemed accurate when you account for Rey's inexperience but rage and Kylo being injured pre-fight. The motivations were there and the atmosphere was pretty cool. It was right before everything went to #### plotwise, and a nice culmination of the third act in the film.

I can live with TFA but all the trilogy has going for it are the projections of what TFA could have led into.

I was ok with that fight, though lets be honest, Finn with 0 light saber experience, and 0 Force aptitude should have been taken apart by a highly trained former Jedi, Dark side user fueled by rage. That fight could have been used better to show how powerful Kylo was.


The fight between Kylo and Rey fueled my theory at the time that she was either a clone of Anakin or a clone of Palpatine as part of a contingency plan that Sidious put together in case he or Vader fell.


I mean even going back to that fight there were elements of Sidious's fight against the three Jedi, and a lot of elements taken from Anakin's fight against Dooku.



Even the fact that she seemed to be savoring Kylo's suffering when she was wounding him and pacing very much like Maul.



At least with the theory I had at the time it could have explained Rey's afinity to the Force and fighting.

[blankall]

A major peeve for me is how they wasted what seemed like great characters. The dynamic and rivalries between Hux, Phasma, Snoke, and Kylo would have made for a great side plot. All of them were ambitious with different styles and viewpoints. Instead they killed Phasma and turned Hux into a moron. There was real potential for some Game of Thrones style jockying for position there.

Similarly, Fin, Poe, and Rey were also all great characters who had the potential for great character development/arcs. Instead we get a half-assed Fin love story, Poe being scolded, and Rey turning into a space wizard.

TFA was good, but also totally incomplete and served only to set things up. Even if JJ had kept on, maybe it would have turned to crap. JJ seems to be great at setting things up, but then never delivers. Based on how he ended TROS, I can't imagine he would have done anything all that much better with three movies. Yes, he was clearly rushed, but he still came up with the absurd massive army of death star/star destroyers with a stupidly overpowered Palpatine idea.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Over time I have come around to the forest fight between Rey & Finn vs Kylo. I thought it was good because the fighting styles seemed accurate when you account for Rey's inexperience but rage and Kylo being injured pre-fight. The motivations were there and the atmosphere was pretty cool. It was right before everything went to #### plotwise, and a nice culmination of the third act in the film.

I can live with TFA but all the trilogy has going for it are the projections of what TFA could have led into.

it was fine

Kylo - physically and emotionally injured (latter probably a much bigger factor)
Finn - trained in melee combat, force sensitive (in stupid RoS but still official)
Rey - super force sensitive, shown to have combat skill from defending herself on Jakku

I know most fans like the prequel duels, but they just don't do anything at all for me anymore. they're so finely choreographed they look like a high budget version of what I'd expect to see on a Disneyworld stage.

[belsarius]

Every time I think about TLJ I can't get over the ridiculousness of the slow speed chase. It was just such lazy writing as a plot device. Last weekend I was going through old shows on my computer and decided to rewatch a few episodes of Battlestar Galactica (2004).

That whole first season was about running from an enemy who shouldn't be able to track you through hyperspace, but can. Almost the exact same plot device but BSG leaned into it, created great storylines about infiltrators, ghost ships, missed jumps splitting up the fleet.. so many different ways to go about the frantic chase.

TLJ seemed like the writers (or Rian) just didn't want to put the effort into making it dynamic. I hadn't watched BSG in like 10 years so it wasn't fresh, but man did it ever depress me to see how much more could have been done with that situation. The only part of that whole piece of the movie I enjoyed was the Laura Dern maneuver.

[#-3]

I always find the ROTS defenders strange to me that has always been the worst of the PT. Maybe because I was young enough (13) to not be offended by PM, but for me I just didn't buy the fall of Vader for a second, nothing about the character of Anakin who we watched for 2.5 movies did anything to contribute to his fall, nothing made Obi Wan or Pandmes reactions work for me, It was just so bad. PM at least set out to tell us who Anakin was and how he got to the Jedi, and weather or not it was good they did it. AotC set out to tell us what Leia meant when she said Clone Wars in ANH and it did that. RotS set out to tell us why sweet little Anni killed all the Jedi, and I don't think they told us why, they just told us that he did.

[Inglewood Jack]

that's what the novelizations are for, silly!

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

it was fine

Kylo - physically and emotionally injured (latter probably a much bigger factor)
Finn - trained in melee combat, force sensitive (in stupid RoS but still official)
Rey - super force sensitive, shown to have combat skill from defending herself on Jakku

I know most fans like the prequel duels, but they just don't do anything at all for me anymore. they're so finely choreographed they look like a high budget version of what I'd expect to see on a Disneyworld stage.

I think Kylo/Ben has the best fighting style of any one in all 9 films. His fighting makes sense. Its not a twirly sabre dance but it also requires skill.

The way he disarms opponents first is pretty great.

His hiltsaber is dumb but the duelling style is good.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

that's what the novelizations are for, silly!

I will always state, that the Revenge of the Sith novel is one of the outright best pieces of Star Wars fiction ever written.


I also rank the Darth Bane series really high. The Darth Plagueis novel. The Dark Lord rise of Vader book was incredible.


Some of the Legacy of the Jedi series were really really good, and of course the X-Wing series.


The new expanded universe as a whole is pretty terrible.