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Old 10-15-2021, 01:26 PM   #4021
Pierre "Monster" McGuire
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Data out of the UK's Public Health England is showing the vaccinated account for 70% of Delta variant deaths ( 63.5% of those fully vaccinated). In contrast, 28.4% of unvaccinated individuals have died of the Delta variant in the same time frame, which is February 1, 2021 to September 12, 2021.


For reference, of confirmed Delta cases, 46.87% were either partially or fully vaccinated (26.5% were fully vaccinated), while 43.36% were unvaccinated.


https://assets.publishing.service.go...3_21_09_16.pdf


Edit: That data is on pages 19 and 20.

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Old 10-15-2021, 01:41 PM   #4022
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Data out of the UK's Public Health England is showing the vaccinated account for 70% of Delta variant deaths ( 63.5% of those fully vaccinated). In contrast, 28.4% of unvaccinated individuals have died of the Delta variant in the same time frame, which is February 1, 2021 to September 12, 2021.


.
hmm not sure you are wording this quite right- if so that should be terrifying for antivaxxers- nearly 30% of them have died of covid in 6 months?, I think you are meaning to say that 28.4% of deaths are in fully unvaccinated?


either way the UK has very high vaccination coverage, especially in the most vulnerable age ranges
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Old 10-15-2021, 01:43 PM   #4023
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I have never seen more people outside and active then I did during Covid. Pathways, parks etc. I’d bet physical activity went up as a result of Covid.

Closing restaurants and movie theatres and encouraging outdoor gathering pushed people into activity.

Remember that physics activity is a brisk walk when these type of studies are done.
I think this needs to be looked at very carefully. This is all optics - instead of leaving the province many people simply stayed close to home and this is big reason why Kananaskis, Banff, local parks and pathways were so full during 2020/2021. I would be utterly shocked if the number of people who became regularly active during covid actually went up at all - in reality, it likely remained static or decreased slightly.

Regardless of what a study defines it as, I personally view someone as 'active' when they are making a concerted effort to strive towards physical activity and fitness throughout the majority of their week. The occasional brisk stroll at a park, mountain path, or down the street won't do anything for your overall health and this is why regular diet and exercise are paramount to ones fitness.

A lot of people completely let themselves go during covid that were otherwise active, as they relied mainly on organized sports like hockey, basketball and gym facilities. If you're a truly active, fit person, you find a way to make it happen through all of this, but the average joe certainly wasn't going to take up a sustainable lifestyle change during covid. If they did, they were likely in a large minority IMHO.
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Old 10-15-2021, 01:48 PM   #4024
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Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire View Post
Data out of the UK's Public Health England is showing the vaccinated account for 70% of Delta variant deaths ( 63.5% of those fully vaccinated). In contrast, 28.4% of unvaccinated individuals have died of the Delta variant in the same time frame, which is February 1, 2021 to September 12, 2021.


For reference, of confirmed Delta cases, 46.87% were either partially or fully vaccinated (26.5% were fully vaccinated), while 43.36% were unvaccinated.


https://assets.publishing.service.go...3_21_09_16.pdf

Edit: That data is on pages 19 and 20.
Mods should delete the quoted post, it is garbage. Just another anti-vaxxer taking information out of context.

https://www.reuters.com/article/delt...on-redirect=in
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Old 10-15-2021, 01:59 PM   #4025
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Mods should delete the quoted post, it is garbage. Just another anti-vaxxer taking information out of context.

https://www.reuters.com/article/delt...on-redirect=in
Should we at least discuss it first? Based on the information linked, and the referenced page 19-20


Cases result in death | Vaccinated | Unvaccinated
Under 50 years old 0.05% | 0.05%
Over 50 years old 2.2% | 6.8%

I'm sure the above won't be readable on mobile, but the unvaccinated had huge numbers of sub 50 year olds infected with delta and very few old folks, whereas the vaccinated had more oldies infected. If you compare it as a percentage it looks as to be expected, unvaccinated are dieing at higher rates per case.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:04 PM   #4026
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Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire View Post
Data out of the UK's Public Health England is showing the vaccinated account for 70% of Delta variant deaths ( 63.5% of those fully vaccinated). In contrast, 28.4% of unvaccinated individuals have died of the Delta variant in the same time frame, which is February 1, 2021 to September 12, 2021.

For reference, of confirmed Delta cases, 46.87% were either partially or fully vaccinated (26.5% were fully vaccinated), while 43.36% were unvaccinated.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...3_21_09_16.pdf

Edit: That data is on pages 19 and 20.
Beyond being a month out of date, those numbers are completely meaningless unless you account for vaccination rates among the different ages.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:14 PM   #4027
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Mods should delete the quoted post, it is garbage. Just another anti-vaxxer taking information out of context.

https://www.reuters.com/article/delt...on-redirect=in
I've been vaccinated with Pfizer twice, man.

I'm presenting UK government data. Perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but from what I'm reading (and again, I'm not a statistician), 70% of Delta variant DEATHS in the UK between February and September have had at least one dose and 63% are fully vaccinated.

This is open discussion with real data. Please dissect where I'm wrong because this needs discussing and if I'm wrong, please tell me where I'm wrong.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:17 PM   #4028
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I've been vaccinated with Pfizer twice, man.

I'm presenting UK government data. Perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but from what I'm reading (and again, I'm not a statistician), 70% of Delta variant DEATHS in the UK between February and September have had at least one dose and 63% are fully vaccinated.

This is open discussion with real data. Please dissect where I'm wrong because this needs discussing and if I'm wrong, please tell me where I'm wrong.

For a number of reasons; the most important being what % of Britons are vaccinated in the first place. Also, this is only variant deaths and does not give the whole picture. What of the other deaths?



If only 50% of the population was vaccinated, that's not a good look. If 90% of the population are vaccinated, it's not a bad look. You're missing a lot of context here.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:25 PM   #4029
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Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire View Post
I've been vaccinated with Pfizer twice, man.

I'm presenting UK government data. Perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but from what I'm reading (and again, I'm not a statistician), 70% of Delta variant DEATHS in the UK between February and September have had at least one dose and 63% are fully vaccinated.

This is open discussion with real data. Please dissect where I'm wrong because this needs discussing and if I'm wrong, please tell me where I'm wrong.
Raw and incomplete numbers aren't even a useful starting point for discussion. You need to adjust for age and vaccination rates among those ages to get even close to an accurate picture of vaccine effectiveness.

With 95% uptake among the elderly population (i.e. the vast majority of those at risk for death) and a vaccine that's 90% effective at preventing mortality, you'd expect about 2/3rds of deaths to be among the fully vaccinated.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:25 PM   #4030
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hmm not sure you are wording this quite right- if so that should be terrifying for antivaxxers- nearly 30% of them have died of covid in 6 months?, I think you are meaning to say that 28.4% of deaths are in fully unvaccinated?


either way the UK has very high vaccination coverage, especially in the most vulnerable age ranges

It absolutely is terrifying for the fully unvaccinated. Almost 1 in 3 Delta deaths are in the unvaccinated population. But if I'm reading that right, it's more terrifying for the fully vaccinated who account almost 2 in 3 of Delta deaths in the UK. And I'm one of the fully vaccinated.


Very high vaccination range absolutely has to be taken into consideration. As the other poster mentioned in the Reuters piece, they mentioned "of course most of the deaths are in the vaccination population, they account for most of the population." Which scares the crap out of me because that means these vaccines aren't what we thought they were and aren't AS effective against the Delta variant. Is does, however, seem to be doing wonders against the Alpha variant.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:29 PM   #4031
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hmm not sure you are wording this quite right- if so that should be terrifying for antivaxxers- nearly 30% of them have died of covid in 6 months?, I think you are meaning to say that 28.4% of deaths are in fully unvaccinated?


either way the UK has very high vaccination coverage, especially in the most vulnerable age ranges
Whoa, like you I doubt the quoted numbers. Iím sure itís cited incorrectly. Your inference is likely correct.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:31 PM   #4032
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Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire View Post
It absolutely is terrifying for the fully unvaccinated. Almost 1 in 3 Delta deaths are in the unvaccinated population. But if I'm reading that right, it's more terrifying for the fully vaccinated who account almost 2 in 3 of Delta deaths in the UK. And I'm one of the fully vaccinated.


.
yes but your original quote said that nearly 1/3 of unvaccinated people have died of covid, not that nearly 1/3 of covid deaths are in unvaccinated- those are massively different things.


and both are worrisome to the unvaccinated when as pointed out 95% of the most vulnerable in the UK are vaccinated
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:32 PM   #4033
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Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire View Post
It absolutely is terrifying for the fully unvaccinated. Almost 1 in 3 Delta deaths are in the unvaccinated population. But if I'm reading that right, it's more terrifying for the fully vaccinated who account almost 2 in 3 of Delta deaths in the UK. And I'm one of the fully vaccinated.


Very high vaccination range absolutely has to be taken into consideration. As the other poster mentioned in the Reuters piece, they mentioned "of course most of the deaths are in the vaccination population, they account for most of the population." Which scares the crap out of me because that means these vaccines aren't what we thought they were and aren't AS effective against the Delta variant. Is does, however, seem to be doing wonders against the Alpha variant.
This has rates per 100k people, which is the only way to compare that type of statistic. It's indisputable how well they work.


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Old 10-15-2021, 02:36 PM   #4034
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Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire View Post
It absolutely is terrifying for the fully unvaccinated. Almost 1 in 3 Delta deaths are in the unvaccinated population. But if I'm reading that right, it's more terrifying for the fully vaccinated who account almost 2 in 3 of Delta deaths in the UK. And I'm one of the fully vaccinated.


Very high vaccination range absolutely has to be taken into consideration. As the other poster mentioned in the Reuters piece, they mentioned "of course most of the deaths are in the vaccination population, they account for most of the population." Which scares the crap out of me because that means these vaccines aren't what we thought they were and aren't AS effective against the Delta variant. Is does, however, seem to be doing wonders against the Alpha variant.
I appreciate your engagement to offer an alternate perspective compared to what many of the CP users are used to seeing. Most of the people here often post about how theyíre confused how or why the unvaccinated, vaccine hesitant, and anti vaccine groups even exist. THIS article and discussion hopefully helps the pro Vax group see what the other group sees and uses as an evidence base for their decisions/opinions.

So, everyone, consider the poster took a risk just to engage in a discussion that doesnít seem to be allowed in media.

All - my post here is strictly neutral. Neither pro-this nor anti-that.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:41 PM   #4035
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Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire View Post
It absolutely is terrifying for the fully unvaccinated. Almost 1 in 3 Delta deaths are in the unvaccinated population. But if I'm reading that right, it's more terrifying for the fully vaccinated who account almost 2 in 3 of Delta deaths in the UK. And I'm one of the fully vaccinated.


Very high vaccination range absolutely has to be taken into consideration. As the other poster mentioned in the Reuters piece, they mentioned "of course most of the deaths are in the vaccination population, they account for most of the population." Which scares the crap out of me because that means these vaccines aren't what we thought they were and aren't AS effective against the Delta variant. Is does, however, seem to be doing wonders against the Alpha variant.
Take a minute and think about what the denominators are in the stats you're sharing. What they actually represent and what story they tell...
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:41 PM   #4036
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Fuzz, thank you for posting that screenshot. Can you edit your post to include the link. I'd like to take a link at that because you're right, rate per 100k is appropriate to look at.


However, does that link provide deaths per 100k with a breakdown of vaccine status?
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:44 PM   #4037
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Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire View Post
It absolutely is terrifying for the fully unvaccinated. Almost 1 in 3 Delta deaths are in the unvaccinated population. But if I'm reading that right, it's more terrifying for the fully vaccinated who account almost 2 in 3 of Delta deaths in the UK. And I'm one of the fully vaccinated.


Very high vaccination range absolutely has to be taken into consideration. As the other poster mentioned in the Reuters piece, they mentioned "of course most of the deaths are in the vaccination population, they account for most of the population." Which scares the crap out of me because that means these vaccines aren't what we thought they were and aren't AS effective against the Delta variant. Is does, however, seem to be doing wonders against the Alpha variant.
And now you are doubling down to try and spread fear among the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike using old, incomplete, and incorrect information while being rebuffed by many in this thread. I think you know exactly what you are doing and just playing dumb when called out on it. Posts like this are absolute garbage and have no place in this thread.

If you have followed any of this thread and the data put out by the Alberta Government you'd realize the impact vaccines are having on the Delta variant in this 4th wave.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:48 PM   #4038
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It's from here:


https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...ccine-outcomes


Unfortunately I don't think Alberta is reporting deaths by vaccination status broken down by age. But you can fairly confidently interpret these numbers as a proxy for deaths. And they do report on that page 77.1% of deaths are unvacinated, keeping in mind we have 76.5% of 12+ Albertans vaccinated, so the deaths per vaccinated is much much lower than unvacinated.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:51 PM   #4039
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Deaths by age and vaccine status over the last 120 days is in table 11. Predictably, even though vaccinated people make up over 50% of deaths in 80+ year olds, the rate per 100K for fully vaccinated vs unvaccinated shows 92% effectiveness.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:55 PM   #4040
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Oh nice, I think that's new? I don't remember seeing that one before.


The facts are blindingly obvious once you look data properly.
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