2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Since1984

#### that! its nearly impossible for me to get all that data. I could only get the data for which player's re-signed with their team before the free agent courting period and July first, then compare it to players who both re-signed or signed elsewhere after July 1...so it is even harder to get recent data without actually knowing a pro agent or multiple.

I am not trying to convince anyone of what I am saying, all I am saying is IMO players test free agency more often then re-upping with the team, regardless of where they sign in the end.

But do you have like... two examples?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But do you have like... two examples?

John Tavares and Blake Coleman!!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Then I don’t think the deal gets done. The flames won’t trade all their top futures and their healthy 2 way 1/2 center who has a 3 year sweetheart contract for a $10M guy who is still risky. Adding a $10M guy like Eichel makes having a sub $5M guy like Lindholm that much more important. If the Flames have 3 of their top future assets in the deal changing the cap from Monahan to Lindholm could be a deal breaker for Calgary

Sure the deal can get done. Someone just has to compromise on something. Or a deal for Monahan with another team gets done and the Flames add to the prospects going the other way.

But if you are saying don’t trade Lindholm straight up for Eichel, I’m not sure you get 100% agreement here, even with Lindholm’s obvious pluses and Eichel’s obvious risks (and salary).

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by FusionX

I don't really think there's anyway this would happen, but theoretically, what could a 3 team trade between us, Buffalo and Ottawa look like where both Tkachuks end up in Buffalo, Monahan in Ottawa and Eichel in Calgary?

Calgary out: Monahan, Tkachuk, 2022 1st conditional on Eichel's playtime, 2022 2nd
Calgary in: Eichel, Connor Brown

Ottawa out: Brady Tkachuk, Connor Brown
Ottawa in: Monahan, Flames 2022 1st conditional on Eichel's playtime, Girgensons

Buffalo out: Eichel, Girgensons
Buffalo in: Both Tkachuks, Flames 2022 2nd

I don't know... I tried to look through capfriendly, do some mental gymnastics so this could be a completely unrealistic proposal but tried to keep it as fair as I can see? I don't know enough about the players/propects on either team to truly make a more informed potential proposal.

It’s a good proposal, and one I thought of. However, Buffalo would need both Tkachuk’s signed to 6+ years for this to make sense for them. Their chance of achieving that is very slim.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

.

But if you are saying don’t trade Lindholm straight up for Eichel, I’m not sure you get 100% agreement here, even with Lindholm’s obvious pluses and Eichel’s obvious risks (and salary).

My God man I am not saying that at all not even sure how you draw that conclusion.

Pretty clear as day I said Lindholm and Monahan are not interchangeable so if the ask is Valimaki, 1st, Coronato then I struggle to see the Flames also adding Lindholm. Never once said anything about straight up.

If Buffalo all of a sudden decided trading their 24 year old franchise center for a 26 year old then sign me up. Not a chance in hell it happens so not even talking about it.

[FusionX]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

It’s a good proposal, and one I thought of. However, Buffalo would need both Tkachuk’s signed to 6+ years for this to make sense for them. Their chance of achieving that is very slim.

You think so? For a franchise that has had no success for a long time, on the verge of losing a superstar forward, they can instantly promote the whole Tkachuk family. Pitch it to them both and their family that they would be the long-term faces of the franchise and pay them well. Say, identical deals of 8m per x 8 years? They might not take it elsewhere but to play together while promoting a whole franchise seems like something they might like.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

My God man I am not saying that at all not even sure how you draw that conclusion.

Pretty clear as day I said Lindholm and Monahan are not interchangeable so if the ask is Valimaki, 1st, Coronato then I struggle to see the Flames also adding Lindholm. Never once said anything about straight up.

If Buffalo all of a sudden decided trading their 24 year old franchise center for a 26 year old then sign me up. Not a chance in hell it happens so not even talking about it.

I hyperbolized, but if the other parts are equal and Lindholm is the sticking point, then it’s not far off. I think Buffalo is going to need a centre, just to have a team on the ice.

What you are saying is, if the Flames give up the other pieces they can’t possibly give up Lindholm. I’m saying it’s not that simple a conclusion to draw. Though I myself might not do that deal. And Treliving, with Lindholm maybe his best trade acquisition ever might not either.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But do you have like... two examples?

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

John Tavares and Blake Coleman!!

Sergei Bobrovsky
Artemi Panarin
Taylor Hall

These are just the guys off the top of my head that actually signed elsewhere, many players test the waters and re-sign with the home club.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Since1984

Sergei Bobrovsky
Artemi Panarin
Taylor Hall

These are just the guys off the top of my head that actually signed elsewhere, many players test the waters and re-sign with the home club.

Wasn’t part of your premise “having a letter”? How was Bob going to have a letter? Panarin left for $11.6M/year. That is going to pry anyone away. And Hall went from the Devils (bad) to AZ via trade (worse) to the Sabres (worst, but for a lot of dough). No wonder he re-signed with an actual decent team.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Since1984

Sergei Bobrovsky
Artemi Panarin
Taylor Hall

These are just the guys off the top of my head that actually signed elsewhere, many players test the waters and re-sign with the home club.

"Many" is not the same as most." You have said that this is something that occurs "more often."

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by FusionX

You think so? For a franchise that has had no success for a long time, on the verge of losing a superstar forward, they can instantly promote the whole Tkachuk family. Pitch it to them both and their family that they would be the long-term faces of the franchise and pay them well. Say, identical deals of 8m per x 8 years? They might not take it elsewhere but to play together while promoting a whole franchise seems like something they might like.

Maybe? Skinner on the team really hinders anything. Sure, you can have Wright/Bedard + Cozens down the middle with the Tkachuk brothers there, however, Skinner’s contract would make it really hard for me as a GM to ice a good roster. I suppose he could be bought out when his 2023 bonus passes, but even then that’s a lot of money to throw at two wingers. And, if I’m the Tkachuk’s, they would probably want 75m/8 year deals in order to stay in Buffalo.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I hyperbolized, but if the other parts are equal and Lindholm is the sticking point, then it’s not far off. I think Buffalo is going to need a centre, just to have a team on the ice.

What you are saying is, if the Flames give up the other pieces they can’t possibly give up Lindholm. I’m saying it’s not that simple a conclusion to draw. Though I myself might not do that deal. And Treliving, with Lindholm maybe his best trade acquisition ever might not either.

I am not saying what you implied at all. The package is not the same if you swap Monahan and Lindholm from the ask. In addition to that anyone following the situation would understand Lindholm is unlikely to be a player the Sabres covet as he helps them now and they clearly want to be in the basement this year at least but likely more. Lindholm is a highly valuable asset but he brings immensely more value to a team that is trying to win and to be quite honest doesn’t beong near the same value to a team who would be under the floor if they moved out Eichel’s salary and a team that didn’t expect to realistically compete while Lindholm is a bargain contract in his 20’s.

Lindholm makes very little sense for a Buffalo team dealing futures and I highly doubt he is a piece they are demanding. That is the point.

Here is an example of the point I am trying to make:

Flames offer: Monahan, Coronato, Valimaki, 1st (unprotected)
Buffalo - “we really want Lindholm”
Flames revised offer: Lindholm, Kylington, 1st (lottery protected) and a 2nd (conditional on Eichel playing 20 games)

Revised offer makes less sense for the Sabres but not a deal breaker for me. I just am not giving up the true assets they want which is likely our top prospect, unprotected pick, and younger more proven Dman. I just wouldn’t simply swap the veterans out and if Lindholm is the ask the true assets the Sabres covet in terms of futures are greatly reduced.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I think that if the Flames make a move for Eichel, one of Tkachuk or Gaudreau is out the door. To maintain the budget, one of them has to go. It doesn't matter which, but one has to go. That is a good thing IMO, as the assets we lose in the deal for Eichel we may be able to recoup by dealing away one of Gaudreau or Tkachuk. We might come out of this looking pretty good if the right deals are made and Eichel recovers.

[GioforPM]

^^ I don’t disagree a whole lot. What I’m saying is that neither Monahan nor Lindholm fit into the the rebuild that much. But if the Flames are offering a veteran C then their starting point is Lindholm. I mean, surely they don’t prefers Monahan. It may well not be the ending point, and that’s fine.

As for wanting to be in the basement, maybe, but they should also realize by now that that is no guarantee. And they are probably not much different either way, with Monahan or Lindholm.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Whenever this deal goes down I bet nobody in this thread suggested a deal of lesser value. It’s going to be uninspiring for Buffalo fans.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^ I don’t disagree a whole lot. What I’m saying is that neither Monahan nor Lindholm fit into the the rebuild that much. But if the Flames are offering a veteran C then their starting point is Lindholm. I mean, surely they don’t prefers Monahan. It may well not be the ending point, and that’s fine.

As for wanting to be in the basement, maybe, but they should also realize by now that that is no guarantee. And they are probably not much different either way, with Monahan or Lindholm.

I agree with you that neither veteran fits in and I have been pretty firm that Monahan is for cap purposes and would likely be flipped immediately and that would make sense if they demanded Lindholm. Maybe a team would pay the futures they want for Lindholm? From a flames perspective keeping Lindholm and his versatility and contract make him so valuable to the team who would be adding a $10M player and see Gaudreau go to a ~$9M player next year.

I just don’t know what other flames contracts they could dump. Lucic has a NMC and has negative value where I think Monahan represents the big cap hit the Flames could afford to move. Tkachuk is the other contender but similar to Lindholm the future ++ is reduced even more with him as the main piece.

It will really be interesting to see how this all shakes out and the quality and quantity of futures and veterans the Sabres end up taking.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I think that if the Flames make a move for Eichel, one of Tkachuk or Gaudreau is out the door. To maintain the budget, one of them has to go. It doesn't matter which, but one has to go. That is a good thing IMO, as the assets we lose in the deal for Eichel we may be able to recoup by dealing away one of Gaudreau or Tkachuk. We might come out of this looking pretty good if the right deals are made and Eichel recovers.

What that looks like for Buffalo is: trading Eichel for a one or two years of an elite player that walks away at free agency and decreased adders to the package because Gaudreau and Tkachuk are such good players.

I think Buffalo will want the best cost controlled assets they can get back in the deal whether that's players or prospects and to me that isn't Gaudreau or Tkachuk.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I think that if the Flames make a move for Eichel, one of Tkachuk or Gaudreau is out the door. To maintain the budget, one of them has to go. It doesn't matter which, but one has to go. That is a good thing IMO, as the assets we lose in the deal for Eichel we may be able to recoup by dealing away one of Gaudreau or Tkachuk. We might come out of this looking pretty good if the right deals are made and Eichel recovers.

Say the deal is something like:

To Buffalo: 1st in '22, 1st in '23, Zary, Pelletier, Lucic (who Buffalo then retains money on and flips), Monahan (who Buffalo then retains money on and flips)
To Calgary: Eichel (Buffalo could also incl. Eakins as he'd help us until Eichel got healthy in 21/22)

(this trade is likely more rich than what the end deal would look like, but the key is Monahan and Lucic leaving)

In 2022/2023:

Gaudreau ($9M) - Eichel ($10M) - Coleman ($4.9M)
Tkachuk ($9M) - Lindholm ($4.85M) - Mangiapane ($6M)
Dube ($2.3M) - Backlund ($5.35M) - ?
? - ? - ?
?

Hanifin ($4.95M) - Andersson ($4.55M)
Valimaki ($1.55M) - Tanev ($4.5M)
? - ?
?

Markstrom ($6M)
Vladar ($0.75M)

That leaves the bottom of the roster (8 players) with $8.8M on a projected 82.5M salary cap, or $1.1M per player.

Flat out - that's how it should be in my eyes. The bottom of the roster gets constructed with cheap UFAs and youth. No more overpayment. The biggest problem with the roster above is Valimaki slotted as a #4. To have a top-4 defenceman at that $1.55M range is likely unrealistic, but with $1.1M per player for the remaining 8 players to fill out a roster, perhaps money can slide around (...or perhaps Valimaki proves himself as a top-4 guy).

[genetic_phreek]

Where's OutOfTheCube? I'd be interested in seeing what their view of what would be an acceptable trade from a Sabres perspective.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Where's OutOfTheCube? I'd be interested in seeing what their view of what would be an acceptable trade from a Sabres perspective.

I am not sure why it would matter. We already know that Sabres fans are going to expect something unrealistic, and have almost certainly set the value of Eichel too high. This happens every single time a marquis player is moved: the receiving team's fanbase is astonished and angry with the return.