2017-18 Flames' CHL Prospects, General Discussion

[Lanny_McDonald]

nvm.

[Samonadreau]

The nice thing about Gawdin is the style of game he's plays - good 200ft energy game on top of his recent scoring prowess. This opens up the ability to play in the bottom 6 unlike a player like a Burke or even a Baertchi. Even if he projects to be a 30pt player he could be a great bottom 6 add and who knows could even be a home run and be a top 6 impact player.

[bigrangy]

1g 2a First Star for Valimaki tonight

Dubé had a goal and an assist as well!

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Since1984

I will tend to believe what Peter Loubardias, who follows the WHL thoroughly, with a background that is well known and thoughts that are extremely respected in NHL circles over a poster named "New Era" that I have no idea about his/her/their background and would fathom a guess no one in NHL circles even know exists.

But everyone gets predictions wrong now and again.

I'm not that high on Gawdin (or that low either), but I feel like you're not familiar with Loubo. The reason I absolutely love listening to that man speak about hockey is his intense positivity. It's also the precise reason you throw out his superlative laden endorsements of junior players.

My opinion is pretty agnostic at this point. What he's doing is certainly not unprecedented at his age, but there's some interesting caveats too.

Bust points - Overager, 6th season in WHL, no season like this before this one
Optimism points - A bit quicker than previous overagers who didn't make it (or so I've read), bigger than most overagers, is relatively young for an overager.


Seems like one of those ones that we just won't really know for a while. I'd rather have him signed than not have him though!

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

1g 2a First Star for Valimaki tonight

Dubé had a goal and an assist as well!

Got some high hopes for Dube, his goal scoring seems to have improved quite a bit this year. Will be interested to see how he fits in with the Flames in the near future.

[Roof-Daddy]

I know a junior player and he told me of all the players he played against live this year, Dube was easily one of the most noticeable. Called him a speedy, shifty puck possession monster. Completely controlled the play when he was on the ice.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I know a junior player and he told me of all the players he played against live this year, Dube was easily one of the most noticeable. Called him a speedy, shifty puck possession monster. Completely controlled the play when he was on the ice.

Welcome to 3M Millon!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

Junior or college numbers rarely come into the equation when it comes to signing a prospect. Players are scouted for their ability and projected as to whether they have potential to make it at the next level. To suggest Gadwin got passed over because of other players with showier numbers is using the Oilers scouting mentality. The Blues didn't extend a contract because they didn't see potential in him. Period. That was the Blues perception of him, which may be right or wrong. It is up to Gadwin to see who was right.



No, but his career numbers certainly do. We are talking about a player who has five full seasons under his belt, and a kid who played his first games in the WHL when he was a wee lad of 15. He's been a pretty consistent 60 point player after his rookie season. He managed to play his previous two years at a PPG level. His overage year has seen a massive spike, almost doubling his production. Looks pretty much like the overage spike.



Agreed. I like having guys that show they can find the net, especially right handed shooters. Having said that, it is crazy for someone in the media to be suggesting that a player like this is going to be a "very very good player for the Flames" and "someone to be watched." We need to guard against falling into the same traps we mock Oiler fans for.

It is definitely true that when looking at over-agers, we should do so through a critical lens.

However, it is also 'crazy' of you to flat out dismiss media reports on a player, simply because they are an over-ager. People are assessing his play based on watching him and interviewing him. Comparing them to Oiler fans for it is completely uncalled for and unjustified.

Nothing wrong with being cautious, but you go over the top sometimes in your efforts to be the sober voice.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Since1984

I will tend to believe what Peter Loubardias, who follows the WHL thoroughly, with a background that is well known and thoughts that are extremely respected in NHL circles over a poster named "New Era" that I have no idea about his/her/their background and would fathom a guess no one in NHL circles even know exists.

But everyone gets predictions wrong now and again.

Has Peter ever been negative when talking about a junior player? I wouldn't base my hopes on Gawdin based on what he says about him. Most likely Gawdin is a career AHLer, maybe spending some time in Europe as well. If he was able to play 40-80 games in his NHL career it would probably be considered a win for the Flames.

[bigrangy]

I was able to catch a game of Gawdin's last year before he signed with the Flames. It was SC vs the Oil Kings (my favorite junior team, don't @ me) and Gawdin scored a hatty and was the best player on the ice. I went with the intention of seeing Heponiemi but Gawdin impressed me with how composed and poised he was. Always in the right place, and always competing.

He was a high bantam pick and he displays some obvious skill. The likely ceiling is a 3rd liner type but the Flames even struggle to draft those, so Gawdin seems like a great pickup to me

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by Fire

Has Peter ever been negative when talking about a junior player? I wouldn't base my hopes on Gawdin based on what he says about him. Most likely Gawdin is a career AHLer, maybe spending some time in Europe as well. If he was able to play 40-80 games in his NHL career it would probably be considered a win for the Flames.

I'm not putting all my hopes on what Loubo says, I am just not basing my future outlook on a prospect based on what a poster on CalgaryPuck says...I will take all available info and determine what I feel Gawdin's future will look like.

Sometimes it takes a kick in the pants to get a player motivated. Perhaps the cut by the Blues, which I am sure was well warranted at that point in his development helped. Interesting thing is...not all players develop at the same rate or at the same age.

I also understand that a 20 year old season can't be viewed as a be all end all. Yes he is a 5th year player and older than everyone else, but he could have just went about his business and had another 20g 30+a 50+ point season, but he didn't. I like his play style and his ability to play with skilled players.

No one knows what the future holds for Gawdin but I like the drive and mental resilience he has shown after being cut by STL.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by Since1984

I'm not putting all my hopes on what Loubo says, I am just not basing my future outlook on a prospect based on what a poster on CalgaryPuck says...I will take all available info and determine what I feel Gawdin's future will look like.

Sometimes it takes a kick in the pants to get a player motivated. Perhaps the cut by the Blues, which I am sure was well warranted at that point in his development helped. Interesting thing is...not all players develop at the same rate or at the same age.

I also understand that a 20 year old season can't be viewed as a be all end all. Yes he is a 5th year player and older than everyone else, but he could have just went about his business and had another 20g 30+a 50+ point season, but he didn't. I like his play style and his ability to play with skilled players.

No one knows what the future holds for Gawdin but I like the drive and mental resilience he has shown after being cut by STL.

Here's hoping the former St. Louis pick, Gawdin, will be our Martin St. Louis in reverse.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I know a junior player and he told me of all the players he played against live this year, Dube was easily one of the most noticeable. Called him a speedy, shifty puck possession monster. Completely controlled the play when he was on the ice.

I don't know if Dube will be a big time scorer, but I could totally see him as a Frolik type strong utility player. Even in this year's training camp/preseason, he was so effective and just knew how to control the puck and work the cycle. There's a reason he was one of the last cuts.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Nothing wrong with being cautious, but you go over the top sometimes in your efforts to be the sober voice.

I'll own that. I do tend to meet hyperbole with hyperbole. A bad habit.

Just to be clear, I was in full support of signing Gadwin. Another round in the chamber so to speak. But expectations need to be tempered - big time. For all the reasons you mentioned about his explosion in offense, but also the nature of the game. Development is about peaks and valleys. Gadwin has hit a massive peak, one he has never achieved before in playing career. The next valley is likely going to be a big drop off as he tries to find the balance in his game. It is going to happen.

I would not be surprised if Gadwin gets some ECHL time next year as he searches for that next plateau. The next step is going to be very difficult for a player that has spent five years at the same level, one where his age and maturity are no longer a benefit or factor. It is a long road these kids face, and for some like Gadwin, the deck has been stacked against them. The big numbers will only set expectations to a level that will be difficult for the player to achieve.

It would be wonderful if this was a kid being a late bloomer, a la Micheal Ferland, but Gadwin has been at this for a long time, and a late bloomer doesn't appear to be the case. Next season will be interesting for him. I hope he does develop into something special, but history seems to suggest that is highly unlikely.

[David Struch]

Gadwin would be a hopeful comparable to Mike Hoffman... 5th rounder #130 overall 2009 NHL Entry Draft, after spending four years in the QMJHL, he spends another four years in the AHL and is now in his fourth season in the NHL.

[Beninho]

Just saw that Joly has 18 more points in 14 less games than last season, interesting. Still only 18 as well, anyone know much about him?

I know the Q is all offense but that’s some impressive progression in any league.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Just saw that Joly has 18 more points in 14 less games than last season, interesting. Still only 18 as well, anyone know much about him?

I know the Q is all offense but that’s some impressive progression in any league.

The word on him leading up to the draft was that his hockey sense, work ethic, skating, and physical play made him an interesting prospect-his skating was said to be very good for a kid who is 6'3"and plays a power forward game. The knock on him was that those attributes weren't on display enough, because his intensity was very inconsistent, and he seemed to sometimes lack motivation. It would appear that he's been working on these perceived faults though, particularly in the second half of this season as his offense has taken a big leap forward.

IMO, in my viewings of him over the summer I didn't notice him much apart from his skating-very good, albeit a little awkward looking. Not really sure why he went so late in the draft, as most had him pegged to go in the 3rd or 4th round.

Edit:I actually did not see him at either camp during the summer, as he was not on the ice due to a back injury. Perhaps I'm getting him confused with Ruzicka. My appologies. The rest is accurate.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by New Era

Be very wary of 20 year olds racking up points in their 5th year of junior. Would be a nice reclamation project, but there is a reason the Blues walked away from him.

Whos that ex Barrie Colts the Flames signed back in the day. scored a bajillion points in his 20YO season as well. Bryan Cameron?? Want to say that was him.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Whos that ex Barrie Colts the Flames signed back in the day. scored a bajillion points in his 20YO season as well. Bryan Cameron?? Want to say that was him.

Yup, he was a cast-off Kings(?) draft pick who got signed on the strength of a 53 goal overage season.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Whos that ex Barrie Colts the Flames signed back in the day. scored a bajillion points in his 20YO season as well. Bryan Cameron?? Want to say that was him.

There is no question that, more often than not, overagers racking up points doesn't amount to much.

Doesn't mean they never do though - that's where I turn to the scouting reports to see why they like him, and if it is reasons that are worth being interested in.