[News] You be the boss results are in

[DeluxeMoustache]

Brodie sure made the mistake of being on the ice when Ryan and then Andersson turned the puck over for a costly goal against. Man. This site is borderline unreadable when it comes to TJ.

When Peters was playing Prout, he sheltered Andersson with Gio and Prout with Brodie.

CP: “Brodie demoted!”

Gio with Brodie is a Norris candidate (derailed by bicep tear)
Gio with Hamilton is a top pairing D who gets 40-50 points
Gio with Brodie is Norris favourite
^
That is not coincidence.

You can’t argue with +29. I’ve said it before. To hear it on CP, Brodie could be +50 if only it wasn’t for... Brodie.

I get the contract situation. I’d like to see TJ back next year. He is not the problem. Hamonic and Hanifin were buried and it was tough to watch.

I don’t know if it’s shiny-new-toy-itis or what, but Andersson is maybe ready for top 4, not top 2. And in top 2, definitely needs sheltering. Kylington was good in terms of where he should be developmentally, but he’s not ready.

If this is the window, and next year has expectations, you probably want a guy of Brodie’s caliber.

Ok, whatever. Resume the bitching about Brodie.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

I like you. And I normally agree with most of what you say (except I still don't know why you like Houston

I have blocked a lot of people this year for being needlessly relentless about several players, but most people on these boards are fair and mindful, and I really do appreciate those people. Being involved with Calgary Puck has been such a fun experience for me, and I am fairly sad that I might be 'BigBrodieFan' on a different message board soon.

That being said, TJ has given 8 years to the Flames and he has a done a lot of good. His most valuable asset has been his speed, regardless if anyone wants to admit it or not. It's what gives him the most value. Valimaki is a great kid and he's going to be a great player for the Flames, as is Andersson, Kyl, etc, etc. However, you are going to notice a definite lack of speed from your blue line with Brodie gone.

Next year, you'll just have a couple of more whipping boys- and one or two of them will be slow defensemen. Maybe they wouldn't be slow to some teams, but you've been spoiled by a very fast blue line. It's especially going to look slower without Mike Smith to help the D avoid getting hit, and having puck battles in the boards.

I get exactly what you're saying. And I know you have a personal interest in Brodie which makes you a fan. I am fan of certain players too, like Gaudreau, who make the game interesting for me. So while I want to see the team improve, there are definitely guys I would rather not see moved. Iginla was another one.

If your goal going into the offseason is to trade so and so, it's going to fail. If trading Brodie or anyone else gets you what you truly covet,then its worth it IMO. And I am a little pissed that our mobile D got owned by the Avs. Not saying the forwards are blameless, it just didn't end up being an advantage at all.

As for Houston, any diverse city of this size will have good and bad things. After living here a while, I have figured out the things I like and try to focus on those. And there is plenty. I also get defensive when people call the city I call home, a "dump". Without knowing, I'm going to guess you live in Katy which might impact your perspective

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

I like you. And I normally agree with most of what you say (except I still don't know why you like Houston

I have blocked a lot of people this year for being needlessly relentless about several players, but most people on these boards are fair and mindful, and I really do appreciate those people. Being involved with Calgary Puck has been such a fun experience for me, and I am fairly sad that I might be 'BigBrodieFan' on a different message board soon.

That being said, TJ has given 8 years to the Flames and he has a done a lot of good. His most valuable asset has been his speed, regardless if anyone wants to admit it or not. It's what gives him the most value. Valimaki is a great kid and he's going to be a great player for the Flames, as is Andersson, Kyl, etc, etc. However, you are going to notice a definite lack of speed from your blue line with Brodie gone.

Next year, you'll just have a couple of more whipping boys- and one or two of them will be slow defensemen. Maybe they wouldn't be slow to some teams, but you've been spoiled by a very fast blue line. It's especially going to look slower without Mike Smith to help the D avoid getting hit, and having puck battles in the boards.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I get exactly what you're saying. And I know you have a personal interest in Brodie which makes you a fan. I am fan of certain players too, like Gaudreau, who make the game interesting for me. So while I want to see the team improve, there are definitely guys I would rather not see moved. Iginla was another one.

If your goal going into the offseason is to trade so and so, it's going to fail. If trading Brodie or anyone else gets you what you truly covet,then its worth it IMO. And I am a little pissed that our mobile D got owned by the Avs. Not saying the forwards are blameless, it just didn't end up being an advantage at all.

As for Houston, any diverse city of this size will have good and bad things. After living here a while, I have figured out the things I like and try to focus on those. And there is plenty. I also get defensive when people call the city I call home, a "dump". Without knowing, I'm going to guess you live in Katy which might impact your perspective

Come on, you two, this is far too civil and rational for this thread.

But really, the reason I want the Flames to trade Brodie doesn't stem from an overwhelming personal dislike of the player. Brodie has given the Flames a lot of good hockey. Seven consecutive 30-point seasons from a defenseman... I mean, that's pretty impressive.

Also, I completely get being a fan of the player. Heck, I have a Brodie jersey hanging in my closet. Right beside the David Jones one. Sometimes it's hard to see certain guys get traded, just because they're part of a special attachment to the team. That's part of being a fan. I empathize with that a million percent.

Brodie seems like a genuinely nice person. He's been a battler. He's dealt with personal and family struggles and fire from the media and fans. He had something of a bounce-back season this year. I have all the respect in the world for a guy like that.

But, as Treliving says, "it's a business." On the heels of his better season, Brodie's value has probably increased, and with one year left on his deal and a great deal of depth at the defense position (plus other players to sign), it likely makes sense for the Flames to move him. Brodie is a skilled player, and ideally, you'd like to keep all of them. But as was the case with Micheal Ferland last summer, I believe that Brodie's time to go has come.

I understand the qualms about speed. I think Hanifin and Kylington are pretty fast. But Hamonic and Andersson leave something to be desired in that category. All of those guys are skilled defenders, though, and a good thing about trading Brodie (and Stone) is that it offers the opportunity to look for someone cheaper who might offer a similar skill-set -- a diamond in the rough, so to sepak -- and who might be able to fill the hole that Brodie vacates.

At the end of the day, if Brodie was to remain a Flame and re-sign in 2020, it might be at a prohibitive cost. Not only might he command a salary of over $6 million, but he might render Hanifin or Andersson unprotected in the expansion draft.

Anyway, those are my extended thoughts. If Brodie does stay, BigBrodieFan, then I will be happy for you. Favourite players are a funny thing. Also, I have never been to Houston, but I dislike the concept of the Coyotes moving there, so I dislike Houston.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

As for Houston, any diverse city of this size will have good and bad things. After living here a while, I have figured out the things I like and try to focus on those. And there is plenty. I also get defensive when people call the city I call home, a "dump". Without knowing, I'm going to guess you live in Katy which might impact your perspective

You were in the Denver area before, right? I've never been to Houston, but I feel, somehow, that it'd be too humid for me. Visited Austin a month back with work, loved the vibe there. Great music scene.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I get exactly what you're saying. And I know you have a personal interest in Brodie which makes you a fan. I am fan of certain players too, like Gaudreau, who make the game interesting for me. So while I want to see the team improve, there are definitely guys I would rather not see moved. Iginla was another one.

If your goal going into the offseason is to trade so and so, it's going to fail. If trading Brodie or anyone else gets you what you truly covet,then its worth it IMO. And I am a little pissed that our mobile D got owned by the Avs. Not saying the forwards are blameless, it just didn't end up being an advantage at all.

As for Houston, any diverse city of this size will have good and bad things. After living here a while, I have figured out the things I like and try to focus on those. And there is plenty. I also get defensive when people call the city I call home, a "dump". Without knowing, I'm going to guess you live in Katy which might impact your perspective

Atascocita. And we have about 500 acres (cattle) out East of Dayton, but we don't normally stay out there during the week because of the drive into work.

Honestly, I just don't like the weather and the traffic.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Brodie sure made the mistake of being on the ice when Ryan and then Andersson turned the puck over for a costly goal against. Man. This site is borderline unreadable when it comes to TJ.

When Peters was playing Prout, he sheltered Andersson with Gio and Prout with Brodie.

CP: “Brodie demoted!”

Gio with Brodie is a Norris candidate (derailed by bicep tear)
Gio with Hamilton is a top pairing D who gets 40-50 points
Gio with Brodie is Norris favourite
^
That is not coincidence.

You can’t argue with +29. I’ve said it before. To hear it on CP, Brodie could be +50 if only it wasn’t for... Brodie.

I get the contract situation. I’d like to see TJ back next year. He is not the problem. Hamonic and Hanifin were buried and it was tough to watch.

I don’t know if it’s shiny-new-toy-itis or what, but Andersson is maybe ready for top 4, not top 2. And in top 2, definitely needs sheltering. Kylington was good in terms of where he should be developmentally, but he’s not ready.

If this is the window, and next year has expectations, you probably want a guy of Brodie’s caliber.

Ok, whatever. Resume the bitching about Brodie.

Even Brian Burke admitted Brodie is a a risk/reward player and he's a guy that always defends his players. The issue at hand is that he's going to be looking for a long term commitment at the age of 30 and the Flames have some solid young talent emerging into NHL roles on the blue line that will be nipping at his ice time. If for whatever reason he loses a step or declines you are left with just a high risk player that's being paid to be a solid top 4 defender. I'm not going to disregard his services as a Flame as he's been a solid player for this organization but it's clearly time to move on for both parties.

[GioforPM]

I'm not anti-Brodie at all. That said, I see him as the most valuable trade chip that the Flames have if they want to upgrade at forward.

[Ashes]

This is where I'm at with Brodie as well. Since watching him come into the league he progressed well past where I originally expected him to. His skating has always been smooth and he's a fun player to watch (especially on his off-side as everyone except gulutzan knows).

But the trade value of Brodie as he is right now it's a great asset for Tre to use at the draft or any other point this summer and i fully expect Tre to bolster the top 6 forward group that looked flat against the Avs..

Also, we obviously don't know exactly where the organization pictures Kylington fitting into the roster going forward but personally, I believe if given 3rd pair minutes starting next season along side a more defensively responsible partner who can hit, Kylington has the potential to turn into something along the lines of Brodie in the future, not to say any two players are the same but Kylington's skating sure would lessen the sting from Brodie departing (if that's the case).

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by the2bears

You were in the Denver area before, right? I've never been to Houston, but I feel, somehow, that it'd be too humid for me. Visited Austin a month back with work, loved the vibe there. Great music scene.

It's stupid humid in Houston. Starting about now until September, you really don't want to be outside in anything other than very casual attire. More humid than Austin. It's a bigger city than Denver with more city things to do than Denver (better food etc.) but loses big on climate and proximity to mountains etc.

I still spend a lot of time in Denver and for whatever reason, I have never really fallen in love with that city. But a lot of people do.

And Scorp, the Coyotes moving to Houston would be the best thing that ever happened. To anyone. Ever.

[TheScorpion]

I think they ought to move to Phoenix before they move to Houston. But they're picking up fans, Gila was popping by the end of the season when they were doing well.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

So the Flames are just......slow on the uptake?
Mackinnon made the most of his 20 PO game experience while Johnny is still working on it after his 20?

Every player is a playoff bust, until they are not. Ovechkin couldn't get it done, until he did. Couldn't win with Kessel, until they did. Each players' experience is their unique own, which is why I think it can't be used as proof of winning or an excuse for losing.

.

Obie’s and Kessel’s teams may not have tasted immediate playoff success, but each player was pretty good during those early years.

Neither was an individual bust.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Brodie sure made the mistake of being on the ice when Ryan and then Andersson turned the puck over for a costly goal against. Man. This site is borderline unreadable when it comes to TJ.

When Peters was playing Prout, he sheltered Andersson with Gio and Prout with Brodie.

CP: “Brodie demoted!”

Gio with Brodie is a Norris candidate (derailed by bicep tear)
Gio with Hamilton is a top pairing D who gets 40-50 points
Gio with Brodie is Norris favourite
^
That is not coincidence.

You can’t argue with +29. I’ve said it before. To hear it on CP, Brodie could be +50 if only it wasn’t for... Brodie.

I get the contract situation. I’d like to see TJ back next year. He is not the problem. Hamonic and Hanifin were buried and it was tough to watch.

I don’t know if it’s shiny-new-toy-itis or what, but Andersson is maybe ready for top 4, not top 2. And in top 2, definitely needs sheltering. Kylington was good in terms of where he should be developmentally, but he’s not ready.

If this is the window, and next year has expectations, you probably want a guy of Brodie’s caliber.

Ok, whatever. Resume the bitching about Brodie.

No, Brodie's mistake is constantly making boneheaded passes/ plays, playing timid and weak in the corners, and being directly responsible for several notable goals against in this playoff series alone.

The defense is better when TJ plays less.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Umm.. that's the Western Conference champs they won 2 years ago on their way to The Cup Finals.

I think this is the one you were hoping to mock:

Don't we have an 05-'06 NW Division Banner hanging? I know I'm embarassed every time I see it.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Don't we have an 05-'06 NW Division Banner hanging? I know I'm embarassed every time I see it.

Then I got bad news for you...

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Don't we have an 05-'06 NW Division Banner hanging? I know I'm embarassed every time I see it.

Why? Is there a team in the league that doesn't hang division championship banners? Maybe Montreal because they simply don't have the room, but nobody else has accomplished near enough to turn their nose up at a division championship banner.

Especially the 05/06 Flames team. That team was awesome. Kipper's Vezina season, Regher's tunnel of death in fine form, Dion lighting it up and being the third Calder nominee along with Sid and Ovie, Darryl coaching up a storm; those Flames were big, mean, and you couldn't score on them. A ton of fun to watch.

Iggy was probably the sixth most compelling story on the team that year. Always fun to reminisce about coming out of that lockout. I will be very put out if we ever lose another full year.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

I like you. And I normally agree with most of what you say (except I still don't know why you like Houston

I have blocked a lot of people this year for being needlessly relentless about several players, but most people on these boards are fair and mindful, and I really do appreciate those people. Being involved with Calgary Puck has been such a fun experience for me, and I am fairly sad that I might be 'BigBrodieFan' on a different message board soon.

That being said, TJ has given 8 years to the Flames and he has a done a lot of good. His most valuable asset has been his speed, regardless if anyone wants to admit it or not. It's what gives him the most value. Valimaki is a great kid and he's going to be a great player for the Flames, as is Andersson, Kyl, etc, etc. However, you are going to notice a definite lack of speed from your blue line with Brodie gone.

Next year, you'll just have a couple of more whipping boys- and one or two of them will be slow defensemen. Maybe they wouldn't be slow to some teams, but you've been spoiled by a very fast blue line. It's especially going to look slower without Mike Smith to help the D avoid getting hit, and having puck battles in the boards.

I think your perspective of Brodie is going to always be skewed. Brodies not that fast, its not like hes keeping up with the forewards on his turn overs or when he bobbles the puck.

Hes just not outstandingly fast by todays standards . 5 years ago he was one of the faster dmen . Now its just average. I think Anderson and kylington are just as fast if not a bit quicker. If not quicker they do seem to be able to recover from their mistakes faster.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I think your perspective of Brodie is going to always be skewed. Brodies not that fast, its not like hes keeping up with the forewards on his turn overs or when he bobbles the puck.

Hes just not outstandingly fast by todays standards . 5 years ago he was one of the faster dmen . Now its just average. I think Anderson and kylington are just as fast if not a bit quicker. If not quicker they do seem to be able to recover from their mistakes faster.

Yeah, I guess I imagined any and all of Andersson’s and Valimaki’s turnovers.

I’ll take Peters assessment over yours, no offense.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I think your perspective of Brodie is going to always be skewed. Brodies not that fast, its not like hes keeping up with the forewards on his turn overs or when he bobbles the puck.

Hes just not outstandingly fast by todays standards . 5 years ago he was one of the faster dmen . Now its just average. I think Anderson and kylington are just as fast if not a bit quicker. If not quicker they do seem to be able to recover from their mistakes faster.

IMO Andersson's biggest weakness is his skating, whereas it's Brodie's biggest strength.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You can’t argue with +29.

Actually, you can.

In isolation, +/- is a useless stat. In context, it may have some value.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Actually, you can.

In isolation, +/- is a useless stat. In context, it may have some value.

Yeah, yeah. I know all the arguments for and against the stat.

While we are being pedantic, I will then beg to differ on your selection of word ‘useless’. It absolutely benefits from context. But it is not useless. Fact is that at even strength, that many more goals were scored by the Flames than against. Outscoring other teams wins games. Players who are on the ice for more goals for than against help teams win these games. They most likely have made a useful contribution to their team, especially when that number is large.

Often the context you reference is that there are 5 other guys on the ice. Sometimes you have players that get an absolute number that looks good by virtue of a team being good.

A team that scores, say, 40 more than it allows in even strength situations will have generally higher +/- across the board than one that is more break even, so player on team x would have a different number on team y. On those teams, it is often interesting to look at numbers compared to their teammates.

Derek Ryan and Mark Jankowski had pretty different +/- numbers.

Fact is for Brodie that his +/- was, what, top 10 in the entire league?

At some point, when your number is high relative to most of your teammates, and over 97 percent of the skaters in the league, you must not be the detriment that some knuckleheads hear are trying to paint you

So in my opinion, you can’t argue with +29 (enough to try to make the case that some people want to)