09-21-2020, 09:23 PM
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#81
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
A reporters interpretation of what these people say is not even close to evidence...
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I disagree on a couple of points.
First off, this is a "reporter's interpretation" in the same sense that any reporting is an interpretation of events. This reporter has summarized the facts and arguments of the case from documents in her possession, from which I think it is safe to presume that she is treating charitably and abridging accurately enough for a news item.
Second, a report such as this is evidence of a type. You may disagree about the quality or robustness of the evidence, but a summary provided from a reading of the relevant documents is most certainly better than nothing, which is the difference here between what Corral has asserted, and what GioforPM has countered.
But then again, I am not a $700/hr attorney.
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09-21-2020, 11:55 PM
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#82
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
A reporters interpretation of what these people say is not even close to evidence.
You didn’t use the term loosely, you used it incorrectly.
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Well I’ve used plenty of news articles as evidence, thanks. Usually in cross, but also as an indirect source. But more on point, there are direct quotes, both from the story and from the pleadings. For example, the actual contractual provisions are in the statement of claim.
Now, until they are sworn, they aren’t evidence in court. But they are certainly evidence before us. As we aren’t in court, the lay definition of evidence applies, which is the body of facts we have available.
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09-22-2020, 07:16 PM
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#83
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: CGY
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TIL lawyers make seven hundred effing dollars an hour!?
__________________
So far, this is the oldest I've been.
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09-22-2020, 08:48 PM
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#84
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale
TIL lawyers make seven hundred effing dollars an hour!?
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Actually, the top partners in the large downtown law firms would be billing out at quite a bit more than that. At least those doing the more challenging corporate/commercial work.
But you also have to remember the expenses, that’s not take home pay.
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09-22-2020, 10:52 PM
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#85
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale
TIL lawyers make seven hundred effing dollars an hour!?
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Depends on what you do, as was said above. I’m not that close to the upper end for a partner in a big shop doing M&A work, though what I do is specialized enough, and is more on par with an experienced litigator.
But insurance defence lawyers, say, charge quite a bit less. Criminal, real estate and some divorce lawyers often charge flat fees that would work out to even less per hour if you calculated it.
Befus and Holowachuk, the lawyers in this case, are experienced litigators and I suspect they’d come in pretty steep.
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09-22-2020, 11:36 PM
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#86
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
A reporters interpretation of what these people say is not even close to evidence.
You didn’t use the term loosely, you used it incorrectly.
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We've plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.
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09-23-2020, 07:53 AM
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#87
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard
We've plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.
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Hearsay anyway. Conjecture - it depends who it comes from.
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09-24-2020, 08:42 AM
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#88
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Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winebar Kensington
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^^ Some lawyers that charge flat fees might collect more per hour than hourly rate lawyers, as the paralegals do much of the work, or an experienced and efficient lawyer can do the work very quickly.
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09-24-2020, 10:12 AM
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#89
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman
^^ Some lawyers that charge flat fees might collect more per hour than hourly rate lawyers, as the paralegals do much of the work, or an experienced and efficient lawyer can do the work very quickly.
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Well, that usually means residential real estate, and no one makes a fortune doing that. Certainly quite a bit less than the downtown lawyers at big firms with a huge hourly rate.
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09-24-2020, 11:10 AM
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#90
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
Well, that usually means residential real estate, and no one makes a fortune doing that. Certainly quite a bit less than the downtown lawyers at big firms with a huge hourly rate.
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Yes. You need a high volume. See also: foreclosure, criminal defence, small business incorporation.
Then there are personal injury guys who live on making settlements on contingency. That's also a volume business. Their opponents, insurance defence lawyers, are often on some sort of tariff imposed by the insurance company, so they also need volume.
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09-24-2020, 11:49 AM
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#91
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Yes. You need a high volume. See also: foreclosure, criminal defence, small business incorporation.
Then there are personal injury guys who live on making settlements on contingency. That's also a volume business. Their opponents, insurance defence lawyers, are often on some sort of tariff imposed by the insurance company, so they also need volume.
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That's why you can hear me in those fantastic ads on 660 and, I believe, 960 now.
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09-24-2020, 05:40 PM
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#92
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard
We've plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.
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great Lionel Hutz reference!
__________________
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09-26-2020, 09:34 AM
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#93
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Referee
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Over the hill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale
TIL lawyers make seven hundred effing dollars an hour!?
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I wish I “made” my hourly rate. That’s just the rate clients pay per chargeable hour, it’s not what the lawyer actually takes home, sadly.
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09-26-2020, 10:03 AM
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#94
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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Yeah I don't know the typical numbers for lawyers, but in my field hourly charge out rates are 2.5 to 3 times what someone makes. The rest has to cover non-billable hours, vacation, benefits, building lease, computers and other equipment, insurance, taxes, legal/accounting fees, and non-billable staff (HR, receptionist, finance,, IT, etc.), as well as hopefully a bit of profit. Of course 1/3 of $700/hour would still be a lot, but maybe their ratio is higher.
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09-26-2020, 10:28 AM
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#95
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
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The traditional framework is the 1/3 rule. 1/3 of billing goes to the pay of the lawyer in question, 1/3 to overhead, and 1/3 to profit.
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09-26-2020, 10:28 AM
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#96
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Franchise Player
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The big money isn’t in your own billing rate. It’s in having people work for you and making money off their billing rates.
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09-26-2020, 10:29 AM
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#97
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
The big money isn’t in your own billing rate. It’s in having people work for you and making money off their billing rates.
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You have to own the means of production.
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09-26-2020, 11:06 AM
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#98
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashartus
Yeah I don't know the typical numbers for lawyers, but in my field hourly charge out rates are 2.5 to 3 times what someone makes. The rest has to cover non-billable hours, vacation, benefits, building lease, computers and other equipment, insurance, taxes, legal/accounting fees, and non-billable staff (HR, receptionist, finance,, IT, etc.), as well as hopefully a bit of profit. Of course 1/3 of $700/hour would still be a lot, but maybe their ratio is higher.
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That’s the same in law. Wages is the biggest chunk, followed by lease.
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09-26-2020, 11:33 AM
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#99
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler
The traditional framework is the 1/3 rule. 1/3 of billing goes to the pay of the lawyer in question, 1/3 to overhead, and 1/3 to profit.
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But the profit goes to the partners, so if you are a partner, you would expect to take home about 2/3 of your gross billings.
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09-26-2020, 12:33 PM
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#100
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler
The traditional framework is the 1/3 rule. 1/3 of billing goes to the pay of the lawyer in question, 1/3 to overhead, and 1/3 to profit.
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1/3 profit? Our clients seem to think our target of around 5-6% is excessive. Maybe I should've been a lawyer (or I need to find less cheap clients).
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