Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 09-17-2019, 05:58 PM   #61
chubeyr1
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
^What makes Calgary unique is that over the long-term they have been pretty awful at managing the asset base via
- Trading players for next to nothing or past the point you can extract value from them
- Letting future core players walk or giving them away
- Poor drafting over sustained periods of time (Chucko, Irving, Pelech, etc).

You can look at each case in isolation and understand why, but ultimately you have to win more than you lose with each of these decisions. And I think under the current regime they are doing that. But for a very long-term that wasn't the case.

Lose trades
Allow good players to walk
Draft poorly

That creates an asset poor organization that becomes a hard hole to dig out of.

They have started to dig out now - but losing an asset like Johnny for little will just be a repeat of it.
Coming off the books are Brodie Hamonic and Frolik!

Do you resign any of them? Do you take the cap space and run? Do you trade them for assets?

I personally think if you traded them all at the trade deadline you should get back a minimum of 2 firsts and 1 second.

Yet will you make the playoffs then? Will you have success in the playoffs?

One must weigh team success with asset management. That is a fine line.
chubeyr1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 06:09 PM   #62
djsFlames
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chubeyr1 View Post
Coming off the books are Brodie Hamonic and Frolik!

Do you resign any of them? Do you take the cap space and run? Do you trade them for assets?

I personally think if you traded them all at the trade deadline you should get back a minimum of 2 firsts and 1 second.

Yet will you make the playoffs then? Will you have success in the playoffs?

One must weigh team success with asset management. That is a fine line.
The awkward part is we shouldn't be selling multiple integral lineup pieces in the midst of a "window" for this team.

I think you sell one for picks, maybe a second one in a hockey trade for a guy that helps you now.

You don't want guys walking away for nothing as ufas but at the same time.... this is the time. This where you hope and pray mangiapane, dube and kylington progress enough to make those guys expendable, where you're not less competitive trading them before the playoffs.
djsFlames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 06:19 PM   #63
Jiri Hrdina
Franchise Player
 
Jiri Hrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chubeyr1 View Post
Coming off the books are Brodie Hamonic and Frolik!

Do you resign any of them? Do you take the cap space and run? Do you trade them for assets?

I personally think if you traded them all at the trade deadline you should get back a minimum of 2 firsts and 1 second.

Yet will you make the playoffs then? Will you have success in the playoffs?

One must weigh team success with asset management. That is a fine line.
Agreed but there is a difference in the assets between those guys and the value that can be extracted and a guy like Johnny
Jiri Hrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 09-17-2019, 06:29 PM   #64
Flash Walken
Lifetime Suspension
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
Agreed but there is a difference in the assets between those guys and the value that can be extracted and a guy like Johnny
Yup, you let depth players walk when you're contending because you need them to actually win in the short term.

You trade valuable core players when they no longer fit what you perceive to be your top end window for contention but are still valuable and productive players.

If they are beyond their years in value and productivity, you can retain them if their pay isn't excessive.

Gaudreau after a couple of years of 100 points at the age of 29 isn't going to be that.

What it means to trade valuable core players while they still have value is to be ruthless about your contention window. I think it's genius in what Dubas is doing that people don't see.

Moving Gaudreau without replacing him with another top 10 player isn't going to cut it, mediocre hockey doesn't win.

To me, that's what the lack of assets gets you, consistently floating around or just below the average, able to tread water but never get anywhere. Able to spend money to stop the bleeding but never enough assets to recover or make up any ground.

This team doesn't work to have tkachuk monahan and gaudreau making 8,9,10 million. That's how you become the blackhawks.
Flash Walken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 06:31 PM   #65
Knut
 
Knut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Exp:
Default

We also have to remember that this isn’t a Fantasy league. These players have families and roots in the city, friends on the team and may be valuable in helping younger guys becomes better pros. If you consistently ship of guys in the final year of their contracts what kind of message does that send to your younger players. What about the vets still there or other players with an interest to maybe come to the team.
Knut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 06:33 PM   #66
Knut
 
Knut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Exp:
Default

Constantly signing undrafted guys and picking for skill in later rounds is very important for the Flames. If you can fill your depth roles with young talented players you can pay more for the top end guys and not have to fill the bottom of the roster Spots with expensive UFAs
Knut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 08:14 PM   #67
combustiblefuel
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Nanaimo
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew View Post
Funny that he calls it his second home. And maybe he likes it that way, which I can understand as he is a young guy still. But yeah, things change for people once they have a family.
He owns a place on the Jersey shore.
combustiblefuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 10:43 PM   #68
djsFlames
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
Solidifying an alliance through marriage is the oldest trick in the book.
djsFlames is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to djsFlames For This Useful Post:
Old 09-17-2019, 10:51 PM   #69
Reggie Dunlop
All I can get
 
Reggie Dunlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

I don't expect Gaudreau to end his NHL career with the Flames given how the industry works. As long as he's around for his Prime Years, I'm fine.
Reggie Dunlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 10:57 PM   #70
djsFlames
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Exp:
Default

How long do you think they could lock him up for after this contract?

Given his growing fondness for the city, I expect he re-signs once, but ends up somewhere else at the end of or before that contract expires.

He'll be 28 then? Could see a 3-4 year extension, with the Flames possibly dealing him around 30 to get good value in return before he begins to slide. Don't know if his agility and hands will last long into his thirties which are what allow him to be effective at his size.

Gio will play out his contract and be done with the game I suspect. Mony's days in Calgary may be numbered, just because of growing pressure to win and the weight that naturally comes with being the 1C. If they somehow go the distance, he'll be around a lot longer than if they don't have some kind of run in them in the next two seasons or so. I love the player, but the team will be looking for playoff results and soon, otherwise it's logical that they'll swap out a major piece to shake things up, and I don't see that being Tkachuk or Gaudreau.

Last edited by djsFlames; 09-17-2019 at 11:01 PM.
djsFlames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 11:30 PM   #71
Blankcanvas
Backup Goalie
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default Blue Gatorade?



Incidentally, something to watch for this season:

During the warm-up yesterday, I noticed Johnny was drinking 'blue' Gatorade. Have they run out of 'purple' or has his favourite colour changed?
Blankcanvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 11:38 PM   #72
Reggie Dunlop
All I can get
 
Reggie Dunlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Blue Gatorade is a major development.
Reggie Dunlop is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Reggie Dunlop For This Useful Post:
Old 09-17-2019, 11:50 PM   #73
Phaneuf_Phan
Scoring Winger
 
Phaneuf_Phan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Exp:
Default

Phew - wait, this is news?
Phaneuf_Phan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2019, 11:52 PM   #74
getbak
Franchise Player
 
getbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Wasn't the purple stuff only reserved for after the line scored a goal?
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
getbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 12:01 AM   #75
Reggie Dunlop
All I can get
 
Reggie Dunlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak View Post
Wasn't the purple stuff only reserved for after the line scored a goal?
We need the intrepid Darren Haynes or Eric Duhatschek to get to the bottom of this!
Reggie Dunlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 07:46 AM   #76
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

If I'm the GM, I'm not drawing up plans to trade Gaudreau just yet. The Flames have yet to determine if any of their core players can emerge as playoff leaders.

If Gaudreau turns out to be that guy, what do you do? Yes his trade value will be highest next summer, but the idea is to win.

Another playoff exit like this year and of course all bets are off. Expect some big changes.
Strange Brew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:10 AM   #77
CaptainYooh
Franchise Player
 
CaptainYooh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Even as far out as his next contract negotiation may seem, has Gaudreau given any thought to digging in for the long haul; and maybe ending up as a Flame for life?
I don't see this exchange as meaningful. What was Gaudreau supposed to say on the spot? "Sorry, man, I can't wait to get back to New Jersey and start playing for Philadelphia."? Duhatschek asked a super-star player point blank a question, which could not have been answered any other way than what Johnny had said without negative repercussions for the player. I would be happy to have Gaudreau stay and play in Calgary and I believe he meant what he said about Treliving, Giordano, Monahan, 100%. I just don't believe he intends to stay here though. I've heard it from people close to Johnny. He has just built a mansion back home. Things change, people change, so it's possible. But I think chances are higher that Johnny is traded to Flyers before the end of his term.
__________________
"An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think." Georg Hegel
“To generalize is to be an idiot.” William Blake
CaptainYooh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:15 AM   #78
Textcritic
Acerbic Cyberbully
 
Textcritic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainYooh View Post
I don't see this exchange as meaningful. What was Gaudreau supposed to say on the spot? "Sorry, man, I can't wait to get back to New Jersey and start playing for Philadelphia."? Duhatschek asked a super-star player point blank a question, which could not have been answered any other way than what Johnny had said without negative repercussions for the player. I would be happy to have Gaudreau stay and play in Calgary and I believe he meant what he said about Treliving, Giordano, Monahan, 100%. I just don't believe he intends to stay here though. I've heard it from people close to Johnny. He has just built a mansion back home. Things change, people change, so it's possible. But I think chances are higher that Johnny is traded to Flyers before the end of his term.
You have heard what from people close to Gaudreau? That he has no intention of re-signing in Calgary?
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
"The Lying Pen of Scribes" Ancient Manuscript Forgeries Project

Last edited by Textcritic; 09-18-2019 at 10:22 AM.
Textcritic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:28 AM   #79
CaptainYooh
Franchise Player
 
CaptainYooh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Pretty much.
__________________
"An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think." Georg Hegel
“To generalize is to be an idiot.” William Blake
CaptainYooh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2019, 10:41 AM   #80
GioforPM
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
Exp:
Default

Can't comment on inside info or Gaudreau's true intentions, but I can't see giving this interview any more weight than the ones where JG said he'd like to play in Philly one day.
GioforPM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:51 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021