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Old 06-10-2019, 11:07 AM   #2481
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Lots of rain in Europe today which means a triple-header of Canadian action in Stuttgart on Tuesday. Only bummer is none of the matches are being televised as far as I can tell (streaming available via tennis tv).
Of course it's raining, I'm here in Stuttgart today only lol. Thankfully didn't buy tickets in advance. I also find it hilarious they're using Kyrgios in a lot of the promo material around here. I guess the clown brings the fans too.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:07 PM   #2482
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It's so hard to rank Roger and Novak on clay IMO. They each so far have one French Open BUT they were playing the same time as the clay GOAT which hurts their number of titles won. Borg is clearly #2 clay court player but after that we got Lendl, Wilander and Kuerten with 3 french opens each. Had Nadal not played tennis, you could make a case that Roger and Novak would each have 5 RG titles so do you put them ahead of the likes of Lendl, Wilander and Kuerten? Also what about Stanimal he also has a title and another finals apperance. Novak beat Nadal at the French which means a lot, but he lost that finals to Stanimal. To me they are top 10 for sure maybe top 5. I also probably put Roger slightly ahead of Novak on clay.

On the flip side, Nadal has had to play in an era with the Wimbledon and Australian Open GOATS. If Roger never played tennis, you could make an argument that Nadal would have 4 Wimbledon titles which would be 4th most all time. As well, in Australia he lost to Novak in 2 finals and some guy named Roger in the other so he could have multiple titles there as well. He's played in 5 Australian Open finals (1 title), 5 Wimbledon finals (2 titles) and 4 US Open Finals (3 titles). It's not like he is regularly getting knocked out in the first week, he is always going deep in all Grand Slams, and who knows I think he could win another US Open/Wimbledon/Australian Open if things go his way.
That's exactly why you have to take into account things like weeks at number 1 and consecutive weeks at number 1 as well. Djokovic and Federer blow Nadal out of the water in that regard and it has to carry serious weight beyond major titles.

Again though, if Nadal wins 2-3 more majors and one or two of those is on a different surface, I think this conversation gets much more difficult.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:26 PM   #2483
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It's a really fun debate when it comes to ranking the big 3, and IMO they are the most accomplished 3 of all time in Mens tennis. Below is the ranking of most "Big" titles since 1990 (Grand Slams+ATP 1000+ Year End Finals)

Roger Federer 54
Novak Djokovic 53
Rafael Nadal 52
Pete Sampras 30
Andre Agassi 26
Andy Murray 18
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:17 PM   #2484
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The reality is this:

Rafa is the only one of the 3 to win the golden slam, the only one to have 12 GS at the same slam, the only one to have missed/withdrew from 15 GS tournaments because of injury, the only one whom both Roger and Novak have acknowledged is their biggest rival. If you consider Nadal not in contention with Roger/Novak, it's out of jealousy and spite It is clear as of now Roger leads in that department, followed by Nadal, followed by Djok.

All of these players grew up playing on clay, to dismiss clay as a lesser surface is an ignorant and arrogant statement. On the flipside, Roger and Novak are lucky there are 2 GS on hard court versus 2 GS on clay.

Stay humble yes, but not gonna stay quiet to your arrogant remarks, clay davis and inglewood jack. Inglewood when you want to say something say it directly to me and not to somebody else, that is cowardly. Your boy got a nice tuneup this French Open and he will think twice about returning next year.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:16 PM   #2485
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the only one to have missed/withdrew from 15 GS tournaments because of injury
Elite excuse making. He's also the only one to go six years without advancing past the fourth round of the biggest major, while losing to such luminaries as Lukas Rosol, Steve Darcis (IN STRAIGHTS lol), Dustin Brown and Gilles Muller. This is where you'll try and slander grass because your boy had a rather humiliating stretch at the sports pinnacle event.

Clay is the unique surface. Lesser players have a better chance on clay because of the slower surface and the ability to slide. More clay events would mean less fans, it's not really a debate. Anti-tennis rules on clay, offense doesn't matter as much.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:36 AM   #2486
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Elite excuse making. He's also the only one to go six years without advancing past the fourth round of the biggest major, while losing to such luminaries as Lukas Rosol, Steve Darcis (IN STRAIGHTS lol), Dustin Brown and Gilles Muller. This is where you'll try and slander grass because your boy had a rather humiliating stretch at the sports pinnacle event.

Clay is the unique surface. Lesser players have a better chance on clay because of the slower surface and the ability to slide. More clay events would mean less fans, it's not really a debate. Anti-tennis rules on clay, offense doesn't matter as much.
Show me when Rafa lost to a "luminary" on his best surface, like Federer lost to Stakhovsky in the 2nd round of Wimbledon, and losing to Kevin Anderson in the SF . And still, Rafa has made 5 Wimbledon finals while Federer has made just as many FO finals... what's your point?

I admit that Wimbledon is the pinnacle tournament, but putting down clay shows how much bias you have against it.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:43 AM   #2487
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"Nadal piling more RG titles only cements more and more his Clay GOAT status"

Can someone with this view elaborate why this doesn’t apply to Roger or Novak?

When Roger adds another Wimbledon, why does it cement his overall GOAT status but this is not the case with Nadal and RG? Wouldn’t another Wimbledon only cement Roger’s grass and hard court GOAT, instead of the overall GOAT?

In my understanding of the word - overall GOAT would indicate the greatest on all three surfaces.

If 333 more RG titles would only further cement Nadal’s status of a Clay GOAT, why would more Wimbledon’s cement Roger’s status as the overall GOAT, and not grass and hard court GOAT, as he has the most GSs on those surface of any player?

Plus, if Novak adds just one more HC GS, he would tie Roger in the number of hard court slams won, thus Roger could then only call himself the grass court GOAT and not hardcourt and grass GOAT based on this thinking, cause he wouldn’t have the lead in the HC department anymore.

I expect the "better distribution" argument, but both Roger and Novak have only one RG each, so further non-clay slams cannot cement Roger’s status as the overall GOAT, but only as the grass and hardcourt GOAT.
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:52 AM   #2488
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Raonic wins in his return, same with Felix. Unfortunately, Denis falls to Struff again. As Meatloaf says, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

Those loses at Wimbledon for Nadal were horrible, but they made the victories that much sweeter. I remember at the US Open him losing to Fognini after being up 2 sets to 0 which was a heart breaker and his loss to Pouille that was terrible. It just made his 2017 title that much sweeter after all the doubters and haters said he would never win off clay again, for him to do it was magical. He could have easily retired, he had so many titles, he had nothing left to prove to anyone. Yet he grinded away, kept working hard and he wins a 3rd US Open title. It remains one my favorite titles out of his 18.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:11 AM   #2489
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Nick Kyrgios joins Shapo on the Stuttgart sidelines and John Horn recaps his match:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1138441672906481664
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:17 AM   #2490
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Raonic wins in his return, same with Felix.
Hey now, let's not downplay that Felix victory as it was over former top 10 player Ernests Gulbis

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Old 06-11-2019, 08:36 AM   #2491
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The young kids gravitate to Felix...spoilered due to size.

Spoiler!
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:52 AM   #2492
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must be tough for Shapo seeing his buddy's development zoom right past him. I like this description of Felix, he's 18 going on 25:

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2019/...iassime/82135/

if some of that willingness to grind and wait for opportunities rubbed off on Denis, he'd make steadier progress. I haven't seen his most recent matches but I'm assuming he's still trying to whale on the ball early in rallies to get the clean corner winner. nobody who wins tournaments consistently does that. they continually improve their court position by maneuvering the opponent backwards/sideways, until they get an easy put-away.

almost like Genie's breakout year, I feel like Shapo's early success at that Rogers cup a couple years back kind of got him believing in his badass shotmaking too much, and he'll need to get past that to keep moving up.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:03 AM   #2493
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Good write-up in the link above Jack, thanks for sharing. As for Shapo, he changed coaches earlier this year, but he continues to struggle. You are correct that he needs to tone down the aggressiveness in his game and work points more to his advantage as he has the ground strokes to put his opponent on the defensive. I still see him going for too much on the return of serve, he needs to incorporate the chip return on serves to his backhand.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:05 AM   #2494
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I think I heard during the finals that Thiem has the 2nd fastest forhand only behind Shapo. Some times players take longer to develop, he's still only what 20? Thiem is 25 and just hitting his stride now, I fully expect him to make a Slam final in the next 5 years.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:50 PM   #2495
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Just thinking, should they even bother with the Laver Cup this year? My best guess for teams,
Team Europe: Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, Tsitsipas, Wawrinka, Thiem
Team World: Nishikori, Del Potro, Anderson, Raonic, Kyrigos, Isner
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Old 06-11-2019, 03:27 PM   #2496
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it's going to be super unbalanced until the Big 3 stop participating, but how would the teams look if it were 25 and under only players? a bit more hopeful?

also, I wonder how long till the Canadian wonder kids are invited. if Felix blows the doors off the USO series, do they find room for him? maybe Shapo too next year if he gets back on track? they need to bring that event to Canada if we're gonna be contributing a significant portion of the roster.
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Old 06-11-2019, 03:35 PM   #2497
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Thiem reaching out to Serena to play mixed doubles at Wimbledon - That's going to curdle my strawberries and cream.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1138552037724098561
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Old 06-11-2019, 03:51 PM   #2498
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it's going to be super unbalanced until the big 3 stop participating, but how would the teams look if it were 25 and under only players? A bit more hopeful?

Also, i wonder how long till the canadian wonder kids are invited. If felix blows the doors off the uso series, do they find room for him? Maybe shapo too next year if he gets back on track? they need to bring that event to canada if we're gonna be contributing a significant portion of the roster.
https://twitter.com/user/status/1118983076539961351
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:55 PM   #2499
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The return of Vasek is imminent...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1138574746176675840
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:41 PM   #2500
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also, I wonder how long till the Canadian wonder kids are invited. if Felix blows the doors off the USO series, do they find room for him? maybe Shapo too next year if he gets back on track?
Shapo's already been, but yeah, putting Felix on the team wouldn't be a bad call if he can finish the year strong and hang around the top 20 mark.
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