10-24-2017, 09:25 PM
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#41
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks
Gg is the worst.every player has experienced point regression
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Gaudreau has 12 points in 9 games this year, a 1.33 P/GP pace. That is well above his career average.
Monahan has 8 points in 9 games this year, a 0.89 P/GP pace. That is well above his career average.
Brodie has 8 points in 9 games this year, a 0.89 P/GP pace. That is well above his career average.
Need I go on?
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10-24-2017, 09:28 PM
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#42
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Gaudreau has 12 points in 9 games this year, a 1.33 P/GP pace. That is well above his career average.
Monahan has 8 points in 9 games this year, a 0.89 P/GP pace. That is well above his career average.
Brodie has 8 points in 9 games this year, a 0.89 P/GP pace. That is well above his career average.
Need I go on?
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No because the posters who hate on GG are not going to change their mind no matter what. The team could win out the rest of the regular season and win 16 games in a row to win the SC and they would still be saying we should have won every game from the start and GG is a bad coach. Nothing you say, no amount of Flames success, or any common sense in general is going to change that.
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10-24-2017, 09:35 PM
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#43
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dissentowner
No because the posters who hate on GG are not going to change their mind no matter what. The team could win out the rest of the regular season and win 16 games in a row to win the SC and they would still be
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Uh, if that happens a lot of people would shut up. I would.
The problem is that because of the way he coaches, it seems futile to even hope for that to happen. We didn't even win one playoff game last year never mind 16. Gulutzan got outcoached by Randy friggin Carlyle, which I didn't know was possible.
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10-24-2017, 09:37 PM
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#44
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
Uh, if that happens a lot of people would shut up. I would.
The problem is that because of the way he coaches, it seems futile to even hope for that to happen. We didn't even win one playoff game last year.
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That was not because of GG, that was because Brian Elliott had all the composure of a person who had eaten a box of Ex Lax half an hour before game time. The team played decent but hard to win when you get goaltending that bad.
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10-24-2017, 09:39 PM
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#45
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Gaudreau has 12 points in 9 games this year, a 1.33 P/GP pace. That is well above his career average.
Monahan has 8 points in 9 games this year, a 0.89 P/GP pace. That is well above his career average.
Brodie has 8 points in 9 games this year, a 0.89 P/GP pace. That is well above his career average.
Need I go on?
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YOU forget the 82 games last year?
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10-24-2017, 09:42 PM
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#46
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
Uh, if that happens a lot of people would shut up. I would.
The problem is that because of the way he coaches, it seems futile to even hope for that to happen. We didn't even win one playoff game last year never mind 16. Gulutzan got outcoached by Randy friggin Carlyle, which I didn't know was possible.
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Are you talking about the Randy Carlyle whose playoff coaching record is 12 games above .500 and who won a Stanley Cup?
You didn't know he could coach?
You should spend some time watching hockey instead of reading Hero charts and corsi graphs, it would help your arguments.
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10-24-2017, 09:44 PM
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#47
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dissentowner
That was not because of GG, that was because Brian Elliott had all the composure of a person who had eaten a box of Ex Lax half an hour before game time. The team played decent but hard to win when you get goaltending that bad.
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Oh please. That's a load of B.S.
Game 1 was lost because of our third pair. Elliott might have been our best player in this hockey game. Gulutzan refused to shorten the bench.
Game 2 was lost partially because of Elliott, partially because Gulutzan refused to shorten his bench.
Game 3 was lost because of our third pair bleeding (while our top 4 might have played the best game of the season) while Gulutzan continued to refuse to shorten the bench, ultimately leading to a goal while the third pair was on the ice that broke Elliott. He could have shortened the bench given the magnitude of the game and the fact that we had one of if not the worst third pairs in the entire NHL and maybe Elliott doesn't have a breakdown.
Game 4 was lost because Gulutzan refused to bench Elliott until it was too late. And then when Johnson came in, the GWG was scored on our.. third pair.
Further to that, Gulutzan's lack of offensive adjustements were a huge part in why we didn't score 5-on-5 goals on the Ducks - you can blame Elliott all you want but you have to score at even strength, you can't just rely on a power play scoring on a bunch of callup defensemen for an injured-AF team to get you through a playoff series.
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10-24-2017, 09:48 PM
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#48
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Franchise Player
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I will preface this by saying that Gulutzan has at least a half-season to 'blow it'. I think he is as safe as any coach in the NHL right now, and I don't in any way see anything to warrant him getting fired or replaced, even if as a GM I would be very tempted by an available Darryl Sutter right now. In my opinion, he has earned a bit of a longer leash.
With that being said, I do think that quite a lot about Hartley's tenure is revisionist history. Hartley did a few things with this team that I really do wish Gulutzan would be better at as well. Hartley I felt made the team function better consistently. Kind of like how Darryl did with the Flames. I also think that his system was absolutely perfect for the Flames at the time.
Look at the rosters that Hartley worked with, including goaltending. It was tough. Look at the defence. Giordano and Brodie really emerged as high-end defencemen under his tutelage. He had Russell and Wideman playing absolutely lights-out for a while too. He got great production from an essentially rebuilding squad. People really forget what he had to work with.
I still argue that Hartley should have been given another chance. His possession numbers were in large measure due to the rosters he had - they were pretty terrible. His devised system was AMAZING for a while, and he did make players accountable defensively. Backlund really emerged as an important cog under him. He forced players to skate back hard and help out on defence, and you must not have been paying attention when a defencemen got a green-light to pinch, but the closest forward didn't rotate back to cover - such an earful was given that nuns in the nosebleeds would have been blushing. He was not some defensively irresponsible coach who just tried to get this team to out-score the opposition. Poorly built teams are naturally going to have poorer possession numbers, no? I mean, they were a brand-new rebuilding team that got a tonne of praise, and he was widely lauded for how much teaching he did on the ice.
He was not the perfect coach. I argue that he didn't deserve to get fired. However, this is no swipe at Gulutzan either. Gulutzan is a much more inexperienced coach than Hartley was, so I think some of his decisions and in-game adjustments are being learned along the way. I don't expect Gulutzan to be at the same level as a tactician to someone like a Darryl Sutter, but he is getting seasoned.
I think for him to get fired mid-season would take a massive losing streak. Something like 10 in a row before Treliving even starts considering it. Probably more like 15 losses out of 20 games. There are definitely things I don't like about Gulutzan - things with his system in particular, or some of his in-game decisions - but he is without a doubt NOT a bad coach.
Either way, it takes a good 20 games to figure out what kind of a team you have, and that includes coaching and systems. People just need to relax after two or three losses, especially losses in which they aren't getting blown-out or getting schooled. What is more telling to me is the adjustments he makes towards the end of the season against the other teams in the Pacific, and especially in the playoffs. Sutter got the most out of all his teams in the playoffs as a coach, as long as they had legs to stand on, and he really did a fantastic job of adjusting to the other team. I am hopeful that Gulutzan builds a few tricks to add to his repertoire as well.
In now way should anyone be screaming for a coaching change right now - not with long stretches of the Flames playing really solid hockey. Last season was understandable - at least to freak out about it - because the Flames went a very long time looking like a hot mess. Gulutzan managed to get that team playing well, and so far into this season, the Flames are playing 'alright', and improving. Why mess with that? He has the rope to get this team solidly pointing the same way.
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10-24-2017, 09:50 PM
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#49
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
Uh, if that happens a lot of people would shut up. I would...
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I don't believe you.
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10-24-2017, 09:56 PM
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#50
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rocky Mt House
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I am still sort of on the fence about Gulutzan. Besides being stubborn, he makes seemingly inexperienced mistakes. Stubborn is not a bad vice for a coach, and experience is all about what we learn from it.
Gulutzan to me seems a lot like the team. A young presence prone to mistakes - but someone who learns from those mistakes and is only getting better.
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10-24-2017, 10:04 PM
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#51
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Powerplay Quarterback
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nm
Last edited by MonsieurFish; 10-24-2017 at 10:55 PM.
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10-24-2017, 10:18 PM
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#52
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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Like I said in the PGT thread, we were one of the top teams in the league in the second half last season, and the absolute best for at least a month and a half. That's not because Elliott was playing well. when the players play the system the way they should, they are a very good team.
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10-24-2017, 10:37 PM
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#53
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrebmi
I am still sort of on the fence about Gulutzan. Besides being stubborn, he makes seemingly inexperienced mistakes. Stubborn is not a bad vice for a coach, and experience is all about what we learn from it.
Gulutzan to me seems a lot like the team. A young presence prone to mistakes - but someone who learns from those mistakes and is only getting better.
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Agree with this. Sometimes I look at his line-up, player usage, in game adjustments, etc... and feel like he over-thinks/out-thinks stuff that should be so simple.
He's got the potential to be a really good coach if he could just get past the stubborn tendencies.
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10-24-2017, 10:49 PM
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#54
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Hmmmmmmm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
Uh, if that happens a lot of people would shut up. I would.
The problem is that because of the way he coaches, it seems futile to even hope for that to happen. We didn't even win one playoff game last year never mind 16. Gulutzan got outcoached by Randy friggin Carlyle, which I didn't know was possible.
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Tonight must have been awful for you. Greatly coached game and Bennett played his best game as a winger even though your hero charts and other advanced stats said he was playing awesome as a Center.
You won't change your opinion no matter what happens.
Notice how I can compliment Bennett on a good game? Compliment Gulutzan on a nice comeback win.
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10-24-2017, 10:58 PM
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#55
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
Like I said in the PGT thread, we were one of the top teams in the league in the second half last season, and the absolute best for at least a month and a half. That's not because Elliott was playing well. when the players play the system the way they should, they are a very good team.
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in the last few games of the streak (the jets game in particular), they won in spite of brian elliot
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10-24-2017, 11:29 PM
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#56
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood
Tonight must have been awful for you. Greatly coached game and Bennett played his best game as a winger even though your hero charts and other advanced stats said he was playing awesome as a Center.
You won't change your opinion no matter what happens.
Notice how I can compliment Bennett on a good game? Compliment Gulutzan on a nice comeback win.
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I am critical of GG, and that was a great comeback win by the entire team, coaches included. Good coaches lose games, and bad coaches win games, so one game can't swing an opinion either way. I don't believe GG is an effective NHL coach. I feel like his system is designed to try and not lose, rather than to exploit the other team's weaknesses and win.
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10-24-2017, 11:30 PM
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#57
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood
Tonight must have been awful for you. Greatly coached game and Bennett played his best game as a winger even though your hero charts and other advanced stats said he was playing awesome as a Center.
You won't change your opinion no matter what happens.
Notice how I can compliment Bennett on a good game? Compliment Gulutzan on a nice comeback win.
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Being fairly new to posting although not new to browsing the board, this is pretty spot on. He’s actually got some good insight but generally is hard to not find insufferable for the most part.
He is the front office of the Cleveland browns. All analytics and no feel for the game.
Last edited by jonkaupp; 10-24-2017 at 11:37 PM.
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10-25-2017, 12:10 AM
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#58
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#1 Goaltender
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Too many posters on this board get an idea in their head and then spin whatever narrative they need to constantly complain about the same thing over and over.
The reality is that Gulutzan isn’t perfect, but he’s a pretty damn good coach for the modern NHL. It’s hockey. Sometimes players will miss assignments, sometimes certain guys just won’t be feeling it, etc.
I’m not sayin Gulutzan is perfect. He has things to learn and work on as does every other coach in the league.
I’m just so tired of trying to read the game thread during a game where we’ve actually been really good and it’s just full of negativity and insults
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10-25-2017, 12:18 AM
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#59
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A Fiddler Crab
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
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People in this thread are putting a lot of emphasis on coaching. The differences between one coach and another on outcomes are actually pretty small. A really good or really bad head coach is probably less valuable than an all-star (or trash) goalie over the course of a season, maybe two or three wins in either direction.
Sure, for bubble teams that is the difference between the playoffs and not, but it's not what takes a team from the bubble to contention.
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10-25-2017, 12:25 AM
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#60
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driveway
People in this thread are putting a lot of emphasis on coaching. The differences between one coach and another on outcomes are actually pretty small. A really good or really bad head coach is probably less valuable than an all-star (or trash) goalie over the course of a season, maybe two or three wins in either direction.
Sure, for bubble teams that is the difference between the playoffs and not, but it's not what takes a team from the bubble to contention.
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True, especially since the effects of good coaching probably take multiple seasons. It took Badger Bob a long time to get his team the way he wanted (and then he resigned before reaping the rewards). And the difference between good and bad coaching is demonstrated by the fate of about half of the Jack Adams winners over the years.
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