Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[getbak]

The Hockey News looks at the issue: http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...-calgary-mayor

[GGG]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Ironically it seems like the conservative people taking up this stance. It's so odd.

They aren't conservatives, This is the perfect issue to tell between conservatives and populists.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Ironically it seems like the conservative people taking up this stance. It's so odd.

its a headscratcher for sure...

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Ironically it seems like the conservative people taking up this stance. It's so odd.

You mean there are politicians out there who stab their constituents in the back and betray the principles they get elected on by reverting to unipartisan bull####? Shocking.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Hockey News looks at the issue: http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...-calgary-mayor

interesting take... one that i am a little surprised to find in "The Hockey News" to be honest...

pretty much sums up my feelings on the arena...

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Jordan Kanygin‏Verified account @CTVJKanygin 1h hour ago
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Some interesting info from the province re: the Community Revitalization Levy. (I know... Fun!) But relevant given #Flames' arena proposal:

Jordan Kanygin‏Verified account @CTVJKanygin 1h hour ago
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Replying to @CTVJKanygin
The CRL program is under review until '18 & province isn't accepting funding requests 'until program review is complete,' says spokesperson.

Jordan Kanygin‏Verified account @CTVJKanygin 1h hour ago
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Replying to @CTVJKanygin
A Victoria Park arena would fall in the Rivers District, an existing CRL zone that runs out in 2027. Can the CRL deadline be extended? A:

Jordan Kanygin‏Verified account @CTVJKanygin 1h hour ago
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Replying to @CTVJKanygin
Extending CRL beyond 20yrs needs legislative change & "would have a significant impact on education tax payers across Alberta" -spokesperson

Jordan Kanygin‏Verified account @CTVJKanygin 1h hour ago
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Replying to @CTVJKanygin
So, even if the City accepted the #Flames' arena proposal, the CRL funding (and program) may not even exist. #yyc /thread

Yikes. Probably something KK should have looked into.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Flames ownership won't get the Edmonton deal.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

They aren't conservatives, This is the perfect issue to tell between conservatives and populists.

Yeah, because no conservative has ever supported a policy where tax dollars are allocated to directly benefiting the rich...

[FireGilbert]

It is so depressing having my favourite team come off as completely clueless and out of touch on this arena issue. At least the season starting soon should provide some distraction.

Also, Eric Francis is such a tool. That attempt at journalism hit all the major arena supporter talking points such as world-class, the library, and fear mongering over losing the team and damage to the economy. Can some of the energy directed at firing Ken King also be directed at firing Francis?

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Matty81

So what are they really apart... Bottom line?

Just spitballing but 40 mil up front is the difference in the city contribution on the plan plus the city wants their 185 mil back over 35 years which the flames dont wanna do.... That has a present value of 110 mil using current prime interest rate.

So 150 mil apart, give or take the dome demo and land costs and quibbling over where that fits. It is not huge. Let's all agree to have them split the difference at 75 each and move on am i right?

Definately not worth the amount of drama these big babies are creating.

Closer to $200M apart based on your calculation in today's dollars. If the team agrees to pay an average of $5M taxes or rent or whatever you want to call it, I believe the the 275M/275M model would be agreed to by the city.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Mayoral candidates weigh-in.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...301752?cmp=rss

From the article...

In an interview with Calgary News at Six host Rob Brown, Smith was asked if the reason he wasn't coming out against the Flames deal was because he was accepting campaign donations from the Flames ownership, to which he unequivocally said, "No."

Smith has refused to provide a public account of who is donating to his campaign until the legal deadline which falls after election day.

"Hey Bill, are you the Flames lackey?"
"No, I'm not"
"Ok, would you like the prove that pretty easily?"
"Nah, I'm good"

You know it's pretty funny, but there's been a lot of talk about Calgary becoming the rare city that stands up to an ownership group trying to bilk a free or nearly free arena deal out of it. Yet Calgary is also staring at becoming one the biggest embarrassments in the arena process yet. If Bill Smith wins, the Flames will have effectively gotten their own representative elected mayor, to give them exactly what they want. Not sure I can remember a comparable situation in other arena efforts. Would obviously make the city look far, far worse than Edmonton did.

Also, I wonder if Francis gets to become the Sean Spicer of the Flames if he helps get the arena done. Role fits him like a glove really.

[Da_Chief]

Smith winning and giving Flames a sweetheart deal they're looking for would leave a sour taste in a lot of Calgarians mouth.

Eventually people will forget what happened but there'll be some who will not care about the Flames anymore. I've been a hardcore Flames fan for last 21 years when I moved to Calgary but them bullying taxpayers into stuffing their own pockets? don't think I'll be able to cheer for this team like I have to this day.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Smith winning and giving Flames a sweetheart deal they're looking for would leave a sour taste in a lot of Calgarians mouth.

Eventually people will forget what happened but there'll be some who will not care about the Flames anymore. I've been a hardcore Flames fan for last 21 years when I moved to Calgary but them bullying taxpayers into stuffing their own pockets? don't think I'll be able to cheer for this team like I have to this day.

I would almost be more concerned regarding what happens to this forum than the Flames at that point.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

From the article...



"Hey Bill, are you the Flames lackey?"
"No, I'm not"
"Ok, would you like the prove that pretty easily?"
"Nah, I'm good"

You know it's pretty funny, but there's been a lot of talk about Calgary becoming the rare city that stands up to an ownership group trying to bilk a free or nearly free arena deal out of it. Yet Calgary is also staring at becoming one the biggest embarrassments in the arena process yet. If Bill Smith wins, the Flames will have effectively gotten their own representative elected mayor, to give them exactly what they want. Not sure I can remember a comparable situation in other arena efforts. Would obviously make the city look far, far worse than Edmonton did.

Also, I wonder if Francis gets to become the Sean Spicer of the Flames if he helps get the arena done. Role fits him like a glove really.

Flames leave and Francis loses his TV gig and a lot of his profile. Sports media and the sports leagues are so intertwined in this country that most of the big media is going to be pro-owner on everything. You've got big media companies that own teams, personalities employed due to the teams, etc.

[Bigtime]

"Along with free transit and policing on event nights, the Calgary Flames owners asked for a veto on future Victoria Park developments and a cut of Stampede parking revenue as part of a new arena deal, Metro has learned."

https://www.metronews.ca/news/calgar...g-revenue.html

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

"Along with free transit and policing on event nights, the Calgary Flames owners asked for a veto on future Victoria Park developments and a cut of Stampede parking revenue as part of a new arena deal, Metro has learned."

https://www.metronews.ca/news/calgar...g-revenue.html

I'm not familiar with planning legislation in Alberta but I can't imagine there is any way for the Flames to have a veto on the development of property owned by other persons (which is otherwise consistent with the City's Official Plan, zoning by-laws, etc). City staff don't even have such a veto.

The whole thing just seems to get more and more absurd.

[Northendzone]

I am assuming this was already mentioned in one of the prior pages, but in case it was not - KK was on the FAN yesterday and he says the Flames are completely done talking about a new arena and despite the repeated questions that seemed to be his answer.

I am one of the those that believe the flames should fully fund a new arena; however, that being said, I have also come to accept that somehow public money will be used to in some fashion (be it direct or indirect with land grants/subsidies/public infrastructure etc.) help the owners get richer.

I also believe that this situation has been so poorly handled by both sides from day one.

I still believe we are about a decade away from a new rink.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

"Along with free transit and policing on event nights, the Calgary Flames owners asked for a veto on future Victoria Park developments and a cut of Stampede parking revenue as part of a new arena deal, Metro has learned."

https://www.metronews.ca/news/calgar...g-revenue.html

So they want a CRL that is already committed elsewhere and that is entirely dependent on development, but also want a veto for that development? Ugh.

As for the parking revenue, I am not against a deal being made there.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Also, Eric Francis is such a tool. That attempt at journalism hit all the major arena supporter talking points such as world-class, the library, and fear mongering over losing the team and damage to the economy. Can some of the energy directed at firing Ken King also be directed at firing Francis?

why, isn't francis writing about some of the same topics that are being discussed in the various threads on this topic? francis gives his opinion - if you don't like it, then why read it?

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Smith winning and giving Flames a sweetheart deal they're looking for would leave a sour taste in a lot of Calgarians mouth.

Eventually people will forget what happened but there'll be some who will not care about the Flames anymore. I've been a hardcore Flames fan for last 21 years when I moved to Calgary but them bullying taxpayers into stuffing their own pockets? don't think I'll be able to cheer for this team like I have to this day.

Why do people think this is a Mayoral decision? If Smith wins he remains just one vote on a council opposed to the deal. I wouldn't worry about them pushing through a crappy deal given 99% of the population has no interest in a deal.