Let's talk about Cryptocurrencies

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by BananaPancakes

While bitcoin may not be scalable to replace Visa/Mastercard, Ethereum is looking at promising ways to scale and may replace credit card usage in the future.

The benefit of using a crypto instead of Visa/Mastercard is you will no longer have a bank taking 1.5-3% of every transaction from businesses. Not only does this save a significant amount of money for business owners, but in countries where they don't have an established banking system, they will finally have a way to accept payment other than cash.

What countries don’t have established banking systems, but have the technology to use crypto? I think you’re reaching a bit.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by BananaPancakes

I'm not sure you know what inflation is?

Bitcoin is programmatically deflationary. Each new bitcoin is more difficult to mine than the last, with a hard limit on the total amount available (21 million). There is no centralized body or government that can dump new bitcoin into the economy and devalue your holdings unlike with fiat currencies.

I know what inflation is. You're lauding the stability of the currency at a time when the exact opposite is taking place. They're incredibly volatile at this point, and granted that's been to upside as of late, but who could really commit a pile of money here and be sure that will continue?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by BananaPancakes

I'm not sure you know what inflation is?

Bitcoin is programmatically deflationary. Each new bitcoin is more difficult to mine than the last, with a hard limit on the total amount available (21 million). There is no centralized body or government that can dump new bitcoin into the economy and devalue your holdings unlike with fiat currencies.

This should be why Bitcoin will be doomed to fail. An inherently deflationary currency with exponentially increasing transfers fees should never be sold. If you make purchasing anything cheaper in the future it breaks the economy.

And this problem gets progressively worse as more people try to adopt it.

The other problem with Bitcoin is once Bitcoin is no longer mineable there is nothing to tether the value of a Bitcoin to the real world other than confidence. Currently the cost of mining the Bitcoin much like the cost mining gold sets a real value.

A non-fiat currency makes sense though Bit Coin in my opinion won't be it.

Currencies need to be mildly inflationary or they don't function as currency.

[BananaPancakes]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

What countries don’t have established banking systems, but have the technology to use crypto? I think you’re reaching a bit.

I think you'd be surprised how easy it is to use bitcoin. The technology needed for bitcoin is an internet-connected device. With that you can set up a wallet that's ready to send/receive in about 2 minutes.

I read in an article awhile back that said there are over 2 billion people in the world who have access to the internet but don't have access to a privileged banking system (easy access to debit card, credit card, etc). Feel free to correct me on that if it's false as I was pretty shocked by that number as well.

Check out what happened in Kenya with M-Pesa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa). It started out as a service to allow people to send cellular minutes through SMS, but it quickly evolved when people started using it to paying for goods and services. I think it's now widely accepted as sort of unofficial currency for that area. It's pretty neat, and it's developing countries like these that are quickly adopting bitcoin.

Originally Posted by Slava

I know what inflation is. You're lauding the stability of the currency at a time when the exact opposite is taking place. Their incredibly volatile at this point, and granted that's been to upside as of late, but who could really commit a pile of money here and be sure that will continue?

Ok, then we were talking about two different things. The volatility of cryptos are crazy right now because the current market is so young. Small groups of users can influence price right now because they make up a relatively large portion of the total market. If you look at the charts, they are actually getting less volatile over time and will continue to do so as more and more people start adopting.

And you're right, because of the volatility and uncertainty, it makes me cringe hear stories of people liquidating all their assets and going 100% into cryptocurrencies.

[BananaPancakes]

Originally Posted by GGG

This should be why Bitcoin will be doomed to fail. An inherently deflationary currency with exponentially increasing transfers fees should never be sold. If you make purchasing anything cheaper in the future it breaks the economy.

And this problem gets progressively worse as more people try to adopt it.

The other problem with Bitcoin is once Bitcoin is no longer mineable there is nothing to tether the value of a Bitcoin to the real world other than confidence. Currently the cost of mining the Bitcoin much like the cost mining gold sets a real value.

A non-fiat currency makes sense though Bit Coin in my opinion won't be it.

Currencies need to be mildly inflationary or they don't function as currency.

Check out this: https://blockgeeks.com/guides/proof-...roof-of-stake/

This is why I'm also high on Ethereum. They have a very focused team that is working to solve these type of problems.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

What countries don’t have established banking systems, but have the technology to use crypto? I think you’re reaching a bit.

Are you joking? Literally every person with a cell phone can use cryptocurrency.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

Are you joking? Literally every person with a cell phone can use cryptocurrency.

So what countries don’t have established banking systems, but has every person walking around with a cell phone?

[Fuzz]

Interesting article about Venezuelans using Bitcoin as a reserve currency to avoid hyperinflation of their currency:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/venezue...coin-1.4447568

This will be pretty depressing for them when Bitcoin crashes and they loose all they thought they were saving...

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So what countries don’t have established banking systems, but has every person walking around with a cell phone?

Bank accounts are predominately a North American thing. Even in many of he developed European countries bank accounts aren’t looked at that same way.

Then tie in all the emerging countries and the amount of people without access or who don’t use banks is increasing at an exponential rate

There’s so many alternative payment options in others countries apart from the traditional banking options in NA it would make your head spin .

This isn’t trying to fix a NA problem. (Although clearing houses and fees are an issue)

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So what countries don’t have established banking systems, but has every person walking around with a cell phone?

Every country without an established banking system.

https://www.cta.tech/News/Blog/Artic...ping-Worl.aspx

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

Every county without an established banking system.

https://www.cta.tech/News/Blog/Artic...ping-Worl.aspx

So you're saying that all these people after going to be using bitcoins and such as a form of payment? They aren't exactly rolling in money.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So you're saying that all these people after going to be using bitcoins and such as a form of payment? They aren't exactly rolling in money.

I didn't say anything like that at all.

You said "What countries don’t have established banking systems, but have the technology to use crypto? I think you’re reaching a bit."

I provided an answer, repeatedly.

[Hockeyguy15]

Yes, because BananaPancake said that these cryptocurrencies are going replace traditional banking in those countries.

Not sure why you want to be so hostile. I didn't ask you the question, and you decided to chime in. If you feel the need to answer the question I asked someone else (while sounding hostile) don't be surprised if I assume you are taking the same position as them.

[dino7c]

Lol so many people praying for it to fail so they can say atoda so.

Bitcoin isn't going anywhere...the tone of this thread has changed dramatically and I think some people are a little jelly. Naysayers told me it was way overvalued at $400.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Yes, because BananaPancake said that these cryptocurrencies are going replace traditional banking in those countries.

Not sure why you want to be so hostile. I didn't ask you the question, and you decided to chime in. If you feel the need to answer the question I asked someone else (while sounding hostile) don't be surprised if I assume you are taking the same position as them.

Sorry if you think I'm being hostile. I just answered the question you posed.

I think a lot of third world countries are going to skip some of the stages that other countries went through. Does that include skipping the step with large bricks and mortar banks? Quite possibly.

If you can turn your phone into a wallet, it removes 99% of the reason you would need a bank, at least for day to day transactions.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

Sorry if you think I'm being hostile. I just answered the question you posed.

I think a lot of third world countries are going to skip some of the stages that other countries went through. Does that include skipping the step with large bricks and mortar banks? Quite possibly.

If you can turn your phone into a wallet, it removes 99% of the reason you would need a bank, at least for day to day transactions.

Well yeah, the first time you supposedly answered my question you started with "are you joking?" and then you didn't even answer the question, you said anyone with a cell phone can use crypto. I'm aware of that, the question was how many countries have people with no access to established banking yet have access to the technology to use crypto. Then after you post the link you come back with you have answered my question repeatedly, and yet you didn't. That's why I think you're being hostile.

Anyway back on topic. I just can't see under developed countries using crypto instead of regular currency. Maybe it's just me but I think this is just a way for the rich to get richer and for desperate people to get screwed.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Well yeah, the first time you supposedly answered my question you started with "are you joking?" and then you didn't even answer the question, you said anyone with a cell phone can use crypto. I'm aware of that, the question was how many countries have people with no access to established banking yet have access to the technology to use crypto. Then after you post the link you come back with you have answered my question repeatedly, and yet you didn't. That's why I think you're being hostile.

Anyway back on topic. I just can't see under developed countries using crypto instead of regular currency. Maybe it's just me but I think this is just a way for the rich to get richer and for desperate people to get screwed.

Ah ok, I don't have time to write an essay on it right now, but I think you might be misunderstanding how a decentralized digital currency would work. There are literally hundreds of articles online about how cryptocurrencies are being used in third world countries (or countries with unstable currencies).

[BananaPancakes]

I think it's good to be skeptical. When I first heard of bitcoin I compared them to Schrute Bucks and questioned why anyone would put "real" dollars into a "made up" currency.

I invite you to do your own research on the underlying technology of cryptos and you'll see that the value is in the utility the blockchain creates. If they have the utility to replace what modern banks do (in a more efficient and decentralized way), why would countries that don't have modern banking need them?

I'm not sure what goes into establishing the type of banking system we have in North America, but I imagine it's an order of magnitude more difficult than setting up a bitcoin wallet on your phone. And how many decades are needed to build trust for such an establishment for a population that has never had one?

[troutman]

Alleged botched Bitcoin venture could have netted Darren McFadden $237,000,000

https://www.bardown.com/alleged-botc...0-000-1.947743

Apparently McFadden had wanted to invest $3 million into a Bitcoin venture before cryptocurrency had fully taken off. According to investment fraud attorney Chase Carlson, that amount invested at the supposed time would be worth almost a quarter of a billion dollars now, $237,000,000 to be more precise.

[snootchiebootchies]

The Swedish co-founder of Bitcoin.com has sold all his bitcoins

• Bitcoin is “as good as useless” and has no future as a tradeable currency says Emil Oldenburg, the co-founder and CTO of bitcoin.com, one of the world’s largest bitcoin websites.
• Oldenburg has sold his bitcoins and believes others will do the same when they realize how illiquid the market is.
• Oldenburg believes there’s a brighter future for Bitcoin Cash, a spinoff currency of bitcoin that is now being actively promoted by bitcoin.com.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/o...itcoin-2017-12