Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > The Off Topic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-24-2017, 07:45 AM   #1
taco.vidal
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Exp:
Default Study finds gender imbalance in children born to Indo-Canadian women

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...rticle34794700

Only a few excerpts below so read the article.

Its somewhat concerning that the study points out that Canadian values arent being adopted by immigrants as they typically have been in the past. The Canadian value of equality for all genders isnt universally shared by all immigrants.

Quote:
Fewer girls than boys are born to Indian women who immigrate to Canada, a skewed pattern driven by families whose mother tongue is Punjabi, according to a new study.

One of the most surprising findings of the study, to be published Monday in the Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology Canada, is that the preference for boys does not diminish, regardless of how long women from India have lived in Canada.
Quote:
But for many Indian immigrants who express a strong desire for sons, the study found, the practice of sex selection remains entrenched. Women who already have two female children are most at risk for abortions in the second trimester, when parents can learn the sex of the fetus. The study builds on previous research led by Dr. Urquia that found a deficit in Canada of more than 4,400 girls over two decades.

The latest study shows that women born in India who already have two daughters gave birth to 192 baby boys in Ontario for every 100 girls. The sex ratios are so distorted, they cannot be explained by natural causes, Dr. Urquia said. Across the globe, by comparison, the odds of having a boy over a girl are slightly higher: 107 boys for every 100 girls.
Quote:
The preference for boys among many Indian immigrants reveals underlying gender inequities and will not change without intervention, Dr. Urquia said.
taco.vidal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 08:29 AM   #2
oilyfan
Powerplay Quarterback
 
oilyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SE Calgary
Exp:
Default

I am from India, and I am quite ashamed by these findings, especially how after a few generations in Canada the thinking still hasn't changed in the community. Centuries of bs cultural/religious practices and thinking have created this situation. Something needs to change.
__________________
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is" — Jan Van De Snepscheu
oilyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 08:45 AM   #3
burn_this_city
Franchise Player
 
burn_this_city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

It's well known that certain immigrant groups engage in sex based abortions, which should be illegal.
burn_this_city is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 08:49 AM   #4
Hemi-Cuda
wins 10 internets
 
Hemi-Cuda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: slightly to the left
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_this_city View Post
It's well known that certain immigrant groups engage in sex based abortions, which should be illegal.
That would be one slippery slope. It's perfectly legal for a woman to get an abortion if she doesn't want the baby regardless of reason, how do you start to introduce requirements to that?
Hemi-Cuda is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Hemi-Cuda For This Useful Post:
Old 04-24-2017, 09:06 AM   #5
Harry Lime
Franchise Player
 
Harry Lime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda View Post
That would be one slippery slope. It's perfectly legal for a woman to get an abortion if she doesn't want the baby regardless of reason, how do you start to introduce requirements to that?
There is no such thing as a 'slippery slope'. Either the end game of someone introducing a rule to stop this practice is a smokescreen for an overall anti-abortion agenda, or it isn't. Easy enough to suss that out, or include wording to the law that prohibits expansion.

It's easy to make this a stand alone rule. It doesn't have to go anywhere else.
__________________
"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
Harry Lime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:09 AM   #6
Oling_Roachinen
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
There is no such thing as a 'slippery slope'. Either the end game of someone introducing a rule to stop this practice is a smokescreen for an overall anti-abortion agenda, or it isn't. Easy enough to suss that out, or include wording to the law that prohibits expansion.

It's easy to make this a stand alone rule. It doesn't have to go anywhere else.
So how do you deal with it? Don't allow abortions if they have already found out the sex? Don't allow abortions of female fetuses? Don't allow Indians to get abortions?

You can't really enforce a ban on any of that without it becoming a slippery slope, not to mention it's still about a "woman's body, her choice" you're removing...
Oling_Roachinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:10 AM   #7
Looch City
Looooooooooooooch
 
Looch City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
There is no such thing as a 'slippery slope'. Either the end game of someone introducing a rule to stop this practice is a smokescreen for an overall anti-abortion agenda, or it isn't. Easy enough to suss that out, or include wording to the law that prohibits expansion.

It's easy to make this a stand alone rule. It doesn't have to go anywhere else.
In my opinion, you could expand it to aborting because of a disability as well. It would open up a giant can of worms.
Looch City is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:10 AM   #8
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Yeah, forcing even more girls onto their population by restricting abortion is a disaster of an idea. No different than forcing a 16 year old who accidentally gets pregnant to keep the baby. You can't address a symptom without addressing the problem.

If it's not a child they want (regardless of why), you're creating a different problem, not a solution.

It's not really that concerning. It specifically talks about abortions by women who already have two daughters, so a ratio of 2 women to 1 male instead of 3 women doesn't appear to be some threat to gender balance or Canadian values.
PepsiFree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:12 AM   #9
Harry Lime
Franchise Player
 
Harry Lime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Exp:
Default

Or we can make the issue higher levels of education on Canadian mores and ethics before immigration is allowed to take place. Have immigrants swear to uphold core Canadian values on whatever deity they hold dear, after they are educated as to what those values are. Maybe some people wanted to come here will change their minds if they learn that this is not the nation that will support their views without confrontation. Others would undoubtedly conform.

I get the feeling that a lot of new people to Canada are mostly left to their own devices to discover what it is to be Canadian.
__________________
"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
Harry Lime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:13 AM   #10
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
It's easy to make this a stand alone rule. It doesn't have to go anywhere else.
It really isn't that simple. The problem is policy-based. If you have no restrictions on access to abortion, that's a clear-cut policy that leaves no room for exceptions. The minute you introduce one restriction based on the argument "it's wrong to have an abortion because of the gender of the baby", that opens a whole can of worms. E.g., if a fetus isn't something that we need to afford rights or legal protections to, why is it wrong to do this? If the fetus should get some rights or legal protections, then are there other cases where those protections should override the mother's wishes? How about where the fetus is viable but shows signs of some non-life-threatening health problem or disability?

It's a freaking minefield.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
Or we can make the issue higher levels of education on Canadian mores and ethics before immigration is allowed to take place.
Oh? Who's coming up with the curriculum on Canadian mores and ethics? We have a wide variety of same. I mean, if you stick to Charter values you're on pretty solid footing... but Charter values don't say anything about restricting access to abortion in any way. Just the opposite in fact.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
Old 04-24-2017, 09:15 AM   #11
Harry Lime
Franchise Player
 
Harry Lime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Exp:
Default

As for the above concerns, I suppose I was looking at it a different way.

Don't allow doctors to divulge the sex of a fetus.
__________________
"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
Harry Lime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:16 AM   #12
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
Don't allow doctors to divulge the sex of a fetus.
This would be horrifically inconvenient to the millions of parents who want this information for a variety of planning reasons. No one would accept this.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:18 AM   #13
Oling_Roachinen
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
Or we can make the issue higher levels of education on Canadian mores and ethics before immigration is allowed to take place. Have immigrants swear to uphold core Canadian values on whatever deity they hold dear, after they are educated as to what those values are. Maybe some people wanted to come here will change their minds if they learn that this is not the nation that will support their views without confrontation. Others would undoubtedly conform.
Isn't one of the Canadian values at this point the allowing a woman control of her own body though?

Sure, education and Canadian value is nice and all, but what type of "confrontation" are you expecting in this situation?

You now want to prevent everyone from seeing the gender of their baby, to prevent women from having the choice to terminate a pregnancy that they have the legal right to do so? Perhaps it's not just the immigrations that need to be educated on Canadian values.

Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 04-24-2017 at 09:20 AM.
Oling_Roachinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:22 AM   #14
2Stonedbirds
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Like Corsi said, the fetus is afforded no rights so don't see why there is a moral dilemma here. It's just a ball of genetic material.

Who cares if it's male, female, derp or otherwise.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
2Stonedbirds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:23 AM   #15
ken0042
Playboy Mansion Poolboy
 
ken0042's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
Don't allow doctors to divulge the sex of a fetus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
This would be horrifically inconvenient to the millions of parents who want this information for a variety of planning reasons. No one would accept this.
Maybe do not allow the sex to be divulged until after the time that abortions are allowed. I don't know the dates, but if you are allowed to abort up until 20 weeks, the sex cannot be divulged until 22 weeks.
ken0042 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to ken0042 For This Useful Post:
Old 04-24-2017, 09:24 AM   #16
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

^That might work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds View Post
Like Corsi said, the fetus is afforded no rights so don't see why there is a moral dilemma here. It's just a ball of genetic material.
To be clear, I was playing out how the argument would go, I wasn't taking that position myself. I'm not totally committed to a position on the moral value of fetuses (or lack thereof), despite being pro choice.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:26 AM   #17
OMG!WTF!
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Exp:
Default

I can't imagine actually wanting a boy.
OMG!WTF! is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to OMG!WTF! For This Useful Post:
Old 04-24-2017, 09:29 AM   #18
Oling_Roachinen
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken0042 View Post
Maybe do not allow the sex to be divulged until after the time that abortions are allowed. I don't know the dates, but if you are allowed to abort up until 20 weeks, the sex cannot be divulged until 22 weeks.
Why though?

I love the irony here though. The reason they are aborting females is because males are more valued in their culture. In order to try and "fix" that, you want to try and control what Indian women are able to do with their own bodies.

Of course it would never ever happen.
Oling_Roachinen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:29 AM   #19
2Stonedbirds
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
^That might work?

To be clear, I was playing out how the argument would go, I wasn't taking that position myself. I'm not totally committed to a position on the moral value of fetuses (or lack thereof), despite being pro choice.
No, I get that. I was just taking it a step further. If the fetus has no legal rights then society at large shouldn't care.

Just part of family planning, no?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
2Stonedbirds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:30 AM   #20
Harry Lime
Franchise Player
 
Harry Lime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Exp:
Default

When I first posted in this thread, I didn't think that I was going to be the 'I hate women, let's ruin the baby-planning industry, I'm barely Canadian and I need to take a course to learn how to be one' guy.

It is a slippery slope. Everything is a slippery slope. I'm converted. Where do we meet? I know how to make banana bread.
__________________
"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
Harry Lime is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:18 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021