So I see that some women snuck up on Don Lemon and called him an Uncle Tom on air, forcing CNN straight to break. Good for her, Don Lemon is such a clownshoe.
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If the killing of 20 toddlers doesn't convince America to change it's thinking and policies about guns, absolutely nothing will.
There are lots of suggestions for how to solve the problem in the US and the solution they are going with is that of the simple minded ostrich. Bury their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away on it's own.
There are lots of suggestions for how to solve the problem in the US and the solution they are going with is that of the simple minded ostrich. Bury their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away on it's own.
They are slowly getting there but a very large chunk of population will (1) outright refuse to actually read studies and data objectively and/or (2) are not capable of understanding the numbers.
But I do believe they will eventually get there. Something that wasn't put in this thread was the Dallas incident last week where a guy shot up a police station from an armored van and left a bunch of pipe bombs. 2 years ago after choking his mother and uncle he was arrested and had his guns confiscated. They gave the guns back after the charges were dropped (likely because family didn't want to testify against him) and those were what he used in the attack. In fact he had 3 previous domestic violence incidents and had uttered threats about shooting up schools etc in the past. Yet he had his guns given back.
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.
-Winston Churchill
Anthony Breznican@Breznican14h14 hours ago
14 years after one idiot sets his shoe on fire, we're still stripping down at airports. An epidemic of mass shootings...? We change nothing.
His next Tweet was even better:
"The TSA has stricter regulations on shampoo bottles than our country has on firearms. We never learn. No horror is great enough to budge us."
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Everyone playing the "ban guns" card, can you please explain how making something illegal will stop people from using it illegally.
Supply and demand. When you restrict the supply of any good in a market or an economy it makes it more difficult for the demand to acquire it whether that be through legal purchases, the black market or theft.
Making these guns illegal will not stop people from using them illegally but it will directionally decrease the ability to do so. That is a good thing and a necessary first step.
It won't stop criminals from acquiring guns for criminal purposes (though it makes it harder). But banning many types of guns and more strict gun laws does make it very much harder for the guy who can or has legally acquired a gun but who has snapped. It of course isn't just a ban guns. It has to be stricter rules on gun sales. Background checks. Waiting periods etc. Soooo much can be done even before even banning guns. Yet they don't do it because everything to the american psyche is a damn slippery slope.
It also gets rid of the accidental shootings that I suspect happen more than the "hero" chasing off the intruder. And really I don't think anyone would say ban all guns. Guns have a place in the world: hunting if you are so inclined. Need to protect livestock. And yes even the need to protect family. But you don't need a semi-auto or automatic weapons to do any of those things. Including the protecting your house...having the gun itself will be enough to cause the intruder to flee in the very large majority of cases.
Last edited by ernie; 06-18-2015 at 02:44 PM.
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I would argue that if you made it more difficult for these people to get guns illegally that the underground gun markets in the States would just get busier.
I'm not saying open access to guns or anything stupid like that. But the bottom line is that there are only three ways to fix this
1) Break America's gun culture obsession. I don't know how you can do that without changing the constitution and the right to bear arms.
2) Up the punishment for violent crimes involving fire arms. You might as well remove unstable elements from the mix.
3) Go after the illegal gun's, We know that countries like China and others make a fortune from gun smuggling. Increase border patrols and doc controls.
4) Shut down gun shows where people can buy weapons and ammunition on the spot.
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I think that all guns should be banned except for single shot flint's. That should be good enough to defend your family with, hunt with or protect live stock with.
And if you miss, by the time you reload while staring at your supposed target and grumbling about the ball sliding out of the barrel the cops will be there.
Plus it lives up to the gun styles that were in place when the Amendment was written.
Plus those guns had an accuracy range of about 4 feet and couldn't penetrate a modern rain coat.
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If the killing of 20 toddlers doesn't convince America to change it's thinking and policies about guns, absolutely nothing will.
They are seemingly beyond hope. When Obama can't even make common sense suggestions regarding backgrounds checks without getting shouted down by the right wing and their usual nonsensical arguments, what chance is there?
I feel for the segment of the US population that actually has their heads on straight and has to deal with the ridiculous knuckle draggers of the country that just never seem to get it.
Its kind of scary that logic and maturity has become something to attack in American politics and policy making, and simple minded bravado is celebrated (by many).
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"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
So I see that some women snuck up on Don Lemon and called him an Uncle Tom on air, forcing CNN straight to break. Good for her, Don Lemon is such a clownshoe.
Congratulations lady you made an a$$ out of yourself on CNN, you must be really proud.
And the term Uncle Tom, I don't think she knows what it means.
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It's such a sticky subject and there is no one solution to it. Living in America, I have come across people who live & breath guns in their daily life. They are extremely paranoid everyone and anyone is out to murder them, and so they must be armed at all times. They are especially worried about the government overstepping their bounds (yet it's interesting they have no problem having the government overstep their bounds in other areas, like building interstates).
Each time there is a mass shooting, they point to it and say see? I need my guns to protect myself and my family since America is full of whackos. Then when the gun regulation debate springs up, they point to it and say see? The government is overstepping their bounds.
Rinse and repeat.
Obviously there are Americans who believe gun ownership is a privilege, not a right. And these people are correct. However, the gun culture in America is so entrenched and so humongous, that any deviating from it is political suicide. So senators and reps are content having a few thousand people gunned down every year as long as they stay in office. There are many people out there who equate gun ownership = patriot = Christian and if you ain't 3 out of 3, yer a goddam commie.
The USA seems to be too far gone these days for any meaningful change to happen. No politician is risking their political lives to make the necessary changes.
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Am I ok with that or do I agree with her? I think a significant portion of the black community in the US feels a little betrayed by Obama, so I think she still clearly knows the meaning of the word.
Congratulations lady you made an a$$ out of yourself on CNN, you must be really proud.
And the term Uncle Tom, I don't think she knows what it means.
You can say she made an ass out of herself, but she clearly knows what Unlce Tom means. It's not really one of those terms you just kind of say without knowing what it means.
Genuinely curious to see the statistics on what percent or number of legally acquired firearms eventually end up being used in the commission of a crime by the lawful owner.
The NRA makes sure that information never gets out, because that would mean "responsible, legal gun owners" hadn't properly stored and kept track of their firearms in some cases, and clearly they're the victims here, in any kind of discussion about gun control.
And even beyond the number of legally purchased firearms being used in a crime, by either the lawful owner or someone who stole it, what about all of the legally purchased firearms that result in accidental deaths? How many kids have shot themselves or their sibling/friend because Mommy or Daddy decided to not keep their guns locked up and unloaded?
Regardless of legality, their are some really, really dumb people clinging to their Second Amendment rights and a lot of innocent people get hurt or killed because they're not smart enough to properly care for firearms.
You're never going to end all gun deaths. It's not possible, there's always going to be a nutjob somewhere who manages to access a weapon and kill people. It's tragic, but it will happen. But there is a lot that we could do as a country to limit that. We can't stop people from doing heroine or crack, but we sure as hell refuse to stop the "War on Drugs." We can't stop all automobile related deaths, but we still have traffic laws, DUI laws, etc.
It's just not that hard to implement basic gun control measures.
-Background checks
-Mental health evaluations
-Drug tests
-Required education on how to clean/fire/store/etc the firearm upon purchase
-Make owners register their firearms annually (just like a car)
-7 day waiting period (during which the seller can conduct background check/drug test/mental health eval, and the purchaser can get his educational credentials)
And for god's sake, if we're going to lock guys up for years and years for smoking pot, why can't we put equally (or preferably, far more) harsh sentences on firearm related crime?
You can't end gun crime, even with an outright ban, but how many lives could be saved with simple gun control legislation?
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Yeah, they need to do something. Just throwing your hands in the air and saying that there will still be criminals out there with illegal guns so we can't do anything is kind of silly. Kids are getting gunned down, innocent people getting gunned down........can't just stand there and watch it happen, it's way, way overdue.
Yeah, they need to do something. Just throwing your hands in the air and saying that there will still be criminals out there with illegal guns so we can't do anything is kind of silly. Kids are getting gunned down, innocent people getting gunned down........can't just stand there and watch it happen, it's way, way overdue.
Exactly, and everyone points out "but people get guns illegally anyway! This punishes law-abiding gun owners!"
And lots of these "law-abiding gun owners" have weapons that are involved in any number of accidental gun deaths or injuries. Maybe if they weren't treated with such a laissez-faire attitude, people would realize that firearms are high-powered weapons capable of exerting deadly force, not a toy for your kid to play with, not something you want just lying around wherever you leave it.
It's not just about criminal activity with firearms. It's not just about homicidal maniacs taking out innocent children or churchgoers. It's not just about gang members. It's about the fact that there are more than 30 thousand people in the US dying as a result of the gun culture in this country, and rather than try to stop it, we're trying to solve the problem by making guns more readily available with fewer precautions. It's absolute insanity that basic, simple gun control measures are treated as if they're a major infringement on human rights.
The US, the only country in the world where owning a deadly weapon is a right, but healthcare is a business.
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Yeah, they need to do something. Just throwing your hands in the air and saying that there will still be criminals out there with illegal guns so we can't do anything is kind of silly. Kids are getting gunned down, innocent people getting gunned down........can't just stand there and watch it happen, it's way, way overdue.
But the NRA is an extremely powerful lobby and no one has the political will to stand up to them. Table 5 said it but if 20 dead eight year old kids isn't going to enact change (and it sadly mostly led to reducing restrictions on guns), nothing will. Maybe 50 dead eight year olds might get it done, but probably not. People in America are addicted to guns at an absurd level.
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