[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

The NCAA doesn't allow student athletes to get paid.

This isn't entirely true... The University of Oklahoma's starting QB was just drafted 9th overall by the Oakland Athletics. He signed a contract with Oakland that had almost a 5 million dollar signing bonus that allowed him to play 1 year of football with the Sooners. (https://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...a-mlb-draft-qb)

There have also been numerous instances where pro players went back to NCAA and played a different sport. For example players who went pro playing baseball and then went back to school to play football.

Sum it up NCAA sucks. Lot of rules should be changed. The NCAA Hockey player going UFA should be changed even though it doesn't happen all that often. It might seem like it as a Flames fan with the Gaudreau scare, Hickey, and now Fox. Although looking back it's been pretty rare but maybe now it's starting to pick up.

[Beninho]

Probably been shared but couldn’t find it in the thread.

https://youtu.be/ScwdtEbZzcM

Love what I see, Hanifin may not become the goal scorer like Hamilton but from watching this video I think he will be a much better puck mover. Has great awareness for a 21 year old Dman, the assist he got at 4:49 is a good example

[ForeverFlameFan]

The way i think of it is we are sacrificing 10-15 points for better defensive play and less penalties. Oh, and around 2/3 inches shorter for 4 years younger.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

The way i think of it is we are sacrificing 10-15 points for better defensive play and less penalties. Oh, and around 2/3 inches shorter for 4 years younger.

Hanifin is not better than Hamilton defensively.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Hanifin is not better than Hamilton defensively.

What's your evidence?

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by sempuki

What's your evidence?

Pretty much every advanced stat available says so. And even if most of you wish to continue to give Gio 100% credit for their pairing being one of the top duo's in the entire NHL, Hanifin has so far been heavily sheltered in his career for a reason.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Hanifin is not better than Hamilton defensively.

Having a good partner helps. Hanifin hasn’t had a Gio.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Pretty much every advanced stat available says so. And even if most of you wish to continue to give Gio 100% credit for their pairing being one of the top duo's in the entire NHL, Hanifin has so far been heavily sheltered in his career for a reason.

Stats tell you what happened, not why. I'm not going to pretend like I think he's better defensively, but he's always been projected to be at 2-way player. It's within the realm that a better partner he could easily be better than Dougie, who's 2 years older.

[PeteMoss]

The Flames were so rigid in their lineup under GG that its hard to determine how good Hamilton and Ferland are. Were they carried by their linemates/d-partners or good themselves? Flames clearly think one way. We'll find out soon enough.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Hanifin is not better than Hamilton defensively.

WELL that sucks, because Hamilton was below average in my view defensively.

[FiveSeven]

Just another one of those things. Elite stats, but we all know he wasn't elite defensively.
Keeping things in the Ozone is nice, but irrelevant when it comes to defending.
He was lazy, hence so many infuriating penalties. He battled along the boards very soft and always made silly plays even when someone was open.

I bet Hanifin will be a better defender, visually and effectively.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Yeah, there's a reason Hanifin has been heavily sheltered: he broke into the league as an 18 year old...

Hanifin is 21, birthday January 25, 1997
Hamilton is 25, birthday June 17, 1993

I'm willing to bet that in 4 years, Hanifin will be every bit as good as Hamilton at 25...

I don't know if Hanifin will be as good offensively as Hamiltion however

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Hanifin is not better than Hamilton defensively.

This may be true. But I am not sure Hamilton is better than Brett Kulak defensively, and Hanifin is 21 and still in a rapid improvement phase.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The Flames were so rigid in their lineup under GG that its hard to determine how good Hamilton and Ferland are. Were they carried by their linemates/d-partners or good themselves?...

I think it is less clear about Hamilton, but there is no question that Ferland benefitted substantially from his deployment on the top line. He was good there, but Monahan and Gaudreau absolutely carried him.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

Just another one of those things. Elite stats, but we all know he wasn't elite defensively.
Keeping things in the Ozone is nice, but irrelevant when it comes to defending.
He was lazy, hence so many infuriating penalties. He battled along the boards very soft and always made silly plays even when someone was open.

I bet Hanifin will be a better defender, visually and effectively.

Your expectations are probably much higher than what they should be. I expect Hanifin to maybe drop down to the third line for a spell at times. Why? This will be year 4 that a coach will be showing him how to play defence.



Yes, that's right. Hanifin admitted during an interview in Carolina early on that no coach sat him down to teach him defence. His skating and offensive ability was always encouraged and focused on by coaches.



He is working on it, he is getting better at it, and I do think he will be 'fine', but I do expect some growing pains.



There are some defencemen in the league that end up being fantastic defencemen. Why? Because they have both the brains and the ability. Phaneuf didn't care about that side of his game, and he spent his entire career being ridiculed for it for the most part. A guy like Giordano did, and he might be the league's most underrated 2-way defencemen.



Hanifin seems like a guy that will commit to it. I think the culture in Calgary is one that will encourage that. I think Peters has been on top of that in his days in Carolina, and will continue to do so here in Calgary. Hopefully a lot of the board is right and Huska is some 'defensmen whisperer' or something, and that his growth will accelerate.


I just think people should realize that Hanifin wasn't taught much defensively (as per his own words) in any junior league or even in the NCAA. We should expect him to be a little bit raw and not freak out when we see it. He is a smart player, and I bet that he gets there.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think it is less clear about Hamilton, but there is no question that Ferland benefitted substantially from his deployment on the top line. He was good there, but Monahan and Gaudreau absolutely carried him.

I don't believe that Ferland got carried. I see what you are intending here, but carried is way too harsh.



Did Ferland benefit from playing with Gaudreau and Monahan? Absolutely. However, Ferland also has the ability to put the puck in the back of the net and make high-level plays and reads. He was able to get to some good spots to get that shot off (second best on the team after Monahan, I would say). He made a series of absolutely beautiful plays with Monahan and Gaudreau throughout the season. I think he contributed to that top line. It was - and I am sorry for bringing up an 80's term here - synergy.



I think if Ferland gets as much opportunity on the Canes as he did here, he will get 20 goals again, and with his shot and wheels, thirty is not out of the question.



Ferland isn't a line driver like some other players may be, but he has a history of being able to play at an elite level with elite players - junior with Mark Stone and now with Gaudreau and Monahan.


Complimentary player? Yeah, I will agree there. Carried? Absolutely not.

[Enoch Root]

I mostly agree with you Calgary4Life, but 30 goals for Ferland? I don't see that happening. I will be impressed if he can repeat the 20.

[Enoch Root]

Hanifin is not better than Hamilton defensively. Yet. But it won't take long.

As for Hamilton, the stats guys think he is this great player defensively, but it just isn't true. In fact it isn't even close. He is lazy defensively, he coughs up the puck, he doesn't cover people in front of the net, and he let Giordano do the heavy lifting far too often. And then there were the penalties.

As someone who tends to focus more on the defensemen, watching Hamilton in his own end drove me crazy. All the talent in the world, but just... blah. Frustrating.

Hanifin is not better than Hamilton yet. But I am going to predict right now that the Flames' defense, as a group, will be better than last year. And will exceed the 146 point total from last year as well.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I mostly agree with you Calgary4Life, but 30 goals for Ferland? I don't see that happening. I will be impressed if he can repeat the 20.

I agree.

I think there's more chance of Ferland getting less than 10 than more than 30.

If Ferland doesn't get premium ice time and PP time with Carolina, he could quickly become a forgotten man.

His line mates will be a downgrade, there is no reason to expect increased production.

[Jiggy]

Hamilton had a don't give a crap mentality. Analytics say one thing, if you watched him play you would see he was a hindrance to his pairing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Hanifin is not better than Hamilton defensively. Yet. But it won't take long.

As for Hamilton, the stats guys think he is this great player defensively, but it just isn't true. In fact it isn't even close. He is lazy defensively, he coughs up the puck, he doesn't cover people in front of the net, and he let Giordano do the heavy lifting far too often. And then there were the penalties.

As someone who tends to focus more on the defensemen, watching Hamilton in his own end drove me crazy. All the talent in the world, but just... blah. Frustrating.

Hanifin is not better than Hamilton yet. But I am going to predict right now that the Flames' defense, as a group, will be better than last year. And will exceed the 146 point total from last year as well.

Hanifin probably will mesh better with Hamonic too. He's offesnive minded but not the freelancer that Brodie is.