Brad Treliving needs to go

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Team still feels like it has too many holes.

They can’t seem to absorb the loss of one good player - Dube, Backlund or Monahan - they’ve failed to win. Because just missing one good player messes their lines up so much. That’s a lack of depth on what we thought was a pretty deep team.

Of course, Ryan is out too so that doesn't help.

[Sylvanfan]

Well all these depth forwards 18 games in have combined for 0 goals....Tanev is the only free agent add to the team with a goal this year.

In the summer I said the difference between Daryl Sutter and Treliving is that we know how Daryl's tenure ended and many are still very bitter about it. Tre's end is going to be every bit as bad.

I don't think they will fire him though...organization has really screwed itself by giving contracts to managers and coaches who are not getting it done. Time to scorch the Earth and make a real effort to rebuild this team. It's Ottawa bad.

[DazzlinDino]

What's Tre prepared to do to save the season or his job? I would bring in a real coach asap and see if we can get more out of the players. At the very least a competent coach can focus on stability and winning games.

[Jetfire]

I've been a Tre supporter forever, but managers with as spotty of a track record as him never get 7+ seasons and we've been spinning our tires for quite a while now. I'm on board with a change.

[Monahammer]

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They can’t seem to absorb the loss of one good player - Dube, Backlund or Monahan - they’ve failed to win. Because just missing one good player messes their lines up so much. That’s a lack of depth on what we thought was a pretty deep team.

Of course, Ryan is out too so that doesn't help.

I thought there was depth as well, however Nordstrom, Simon and Leivo, who it appeared were supposed to be the depth are minimum salary players whom I am sure, nether player, had that many options for contracts this past offseason.

[Badgers Nose]

Tre has too much class to tell us what is going on with the coaching hires.

But there was a good thread on it when Peters was hired. Some posters speculated that Tre did not have budget to get a top guy. Like maybe B Sutter was a big spend and that did not pan out so going forward the owners decided that the mgmt and coaching budget would be low and they have not budged from that.

It's their P&L so whatever. But I think you have to pay for talent to guide your $80M investment. Seems dumb to skimp on this.

Even Tre was a project. And like others have said, his time might be up just as he is starting to figure it out.

Seems more and more like owners might be the problem. There is a preponderance of circumstantial evidence.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

What's Tre prepared to do to save the season or his job? I would bring in a real coach asap and see if we can get more out of the players. At the very least a competent coach can focus on stability and winning games.

I think the very last thing you want to do when your team is reeling is to make a stupid trade.

And considering Ward is 16 odd games into his new 2-year contract, he's not going to get fired.

The Flames will do absolutely nothing, or add a depth piece for a 3th or 4th round pick that won't move the needle at all.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Team still feels like it has too many holes.

I actually think the team as constructed on paper and in a computer model is quite good. The problem is the core members of this team for the most part are not guys who have a 'win at all cost' mentality, which is what's required to win at the highest level. Johnny, Monny, etc. needed bully coaches (Hartley & Peters) to get them to lay it on the line consistently and those coaches will get tuned out after a year or two. It doesn't come from within for those guys, and that cascades down to the other players in the locker room. Therefore they can't be the major cornerstones of a winning franchise.

So if we're going to be contenders we need one or two PPG players who hate losing in their bones to replace them. Unfortunately those kinds of players only come in the draft or at so high a premium via trade or free agency that it isn't feasible to patch this roster over. Burn it to the ground, fire everyone. Rebuild it is.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Tre has too much class to tell us what is going on with the coaching hires.

But there was a good thread on it when Peters was hired. Some posters speculated that Tre did not have budget to get a top guy. Like maybe B Sutter was a big spend and that did not pan out so going forward the owners decided that the mgmt and coaching budget would be low and they have not budged from that.

It's their P&L so whatever. But I think you have to pay for talent to guide your $80M investment. Seems dumb to skimp on this.

Even Tre was a project. And like others have said, his time might be up just as he is starting to figure it out.

Seems more and more like owners might be the problem. There is a preponderance of circumstantial evidence.

I look forward to hiring another rookie GM and firing him just as he starts to learn from his mistakes.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Tre has too much class to tell us what is going on with the coaching hires.

But there was a good thread on it when Peters was hired. Some posters speculated that Tre did not have budget to get a top guy. Like maybe B Sutter was a big spend and that did not pan out so going forward the owners decided that the mgmt and coaching budget would be low and they have not budged from that.

It's their P&L so whatever. But I think you have to pay for talent to guide your $80M investment. Seems dumb to skimp on this.

Even Tre was a project. And like others have said, his time might be up just as he is starting to figure it out.

Seems more and more like owners might be the problem. There is a preponderance of circumstantial evidence.

It doesn't really add up logically though. Why would they be okay with spending on player contracts, going after free agents, spending to the cap, but then hiring a more reputable coach is going to break their bank? I suppose it could be true, but it just doesn't make sense. Isn't the more likely scenario that Treliving just has his vision with what he wants in a coach, and none of them have worked out? I don't think ownership was behind him not interviewing several candidates etc. He seems to just think he knows what makes a good diamond in the rough coach and goes with that.

[Ferarri]

When Tree fired Hartley he mentioned something along the lines of “he took this team as far as he could and I think a change was necessary.” Well Brad I think those words are very telling of your current situation. It’s hard to make trades in the NHL with salary and term etc, but he seems to emotionally attached to this core. Feels like he won’t do what it takes to admit defeat and move on.

Obviously ownership sets the tone and his mandate must be to win now, but this is just atrocious. I was really looking forward to this season given the circumstances of 2020 and Covid. Seems like there is only one thing that is constant in this world, the Calgary Flames are a bad hockey team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

I thought there was depth as well, however Nordstrom, Simon and Leivo, who it appeared were supposed to be the depth are minimum salary players whom I am sure, nether player, had that many options for contracts this past offseason.

Right but even they made pretty good sense at 4th line prices. We’ve always complained we spend too much on bottom line players (or guys who end up there). Stajan, Ryan, etc.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I think the very last thing you want to do when your team is reeling is to make a stupid trade.

And considering Ward is 16 odd game into his new 2-year contract, he's not going to get fired.

The Flames will do absolutely nothing, or add a depth piece for a 3th or 4th round pick that won't move the needle at all.

He will rather be fired than make a dumb trade. I believe him when he says trust the process - that is his mantra.

Also agree whoever signs the cheques is not letting Tre off with another buyout.

And you are probably right about what happens next. Sam gets moved, because that was always going to happen. Not much else though with Covid. Unless they go rebuild and get picks and prospects for current roster players and tank this season (don't think they will do that).

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I look forward to hiring another rookie GM and firing him just as he starts to learn from his mistakes.

I find it hard to believe there wasn't someone out there who we could have tried instead of bringing Ward back, even on the cheap. Ward showed last year he wasn't a good coach. He picked right up this year, with his .500 crap hockey.

Trelieving is also not a good gm, and is still making the same mistakes over and over again.

It will be an exciting day when the Flames clean house.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by btimbit

That's the worst part imo

Not just giving Ward a contract, but doing it when known better options are available.

It's unforgivable

Especially when your trying to build a winner, why would you pick unknowns? He reminds me of GG when he would experiment with putting defenseman on their off sides and push an idea even when it wasn't working. Playing Brouwer and Neal even while it wasn't working. The process has proved to be a false narrative that gave the impression things would eventually get better and improve. How hard is it to go out and get a proven coach and then work from there???

A lot of wasted efforts and seasons!

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Igottago

It doesn't really add up logically though. Why would they be okay with spending on player contracts, going after free agents, spending to the cap, but then hiring a more reputable coach is going to break their bank? I suppose it could be true, but it just doesn't make sense. Isn't the more likely scenario that Treliving just has his vision with what he wants in a coach, and none of them have worked out? I don't think ownership was behind him not interviewing several candidates etc. He seems to just think he knows what makes a good diamond in the rough coach and goes with that.

What is spent on players is public domain. So fans get mad about ticket prices and such when the on ice spend is not matching up against what we have to pay. It's optics and PR.

Whereas the back office is a mystery to us. The team doesn't have to tell us contracts and terms. But we know they have taken passes on top people in favour of unproven people.

I agree that it doesn't add up.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Igottago

It doesn't really add up logically though. Why would they be okay with spending on player contracts, going after free agents, spending to the cap, but then hiring a more reputable coach is going to break their bank? I suppose it could be true, but it just doesn't make sense. Isn't the more likely scenario that Treliving just has his vision with what he wants in a coach, and none of them have worked out? I don't think ownership was behind him not interviewing several candidates etc. He seems to just think he knows what makes a good diamond in the rough coach and goes with that.

This is where I'm at too. I 100% believe Trelieving won't hire someone he believes will challenge his authority. He is the problem.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Igottago

It doesn't really add up logically though. Why would they be okay with spending on player contracts, going after free agents, spending to the cap, but then hiring a more reputable coach is going to break their bank? I suppose it could be true, but it just doesn't make sense. Isn't the more likely scenario that Treliving just has his vision with what he wants in a coach, and none of them have worked out? I don't think ownership was behind him not interviewing several candidates etc. He seems to just think he knows what makes a good diamond in the rough coach and goes with that.

I think they figure they have to spend to the cap. I also think they look at coaches and salaries, and success rates and have worked out that paying an expensive experienced guy (Babcock/McLelland/Julien) is no guarantee of success, and that relatively new faces (Cooper/Sullivan) have as good a chance of success.

Now with this team who seems to figure they can choose to play for a coach or not and have tuned out every coach they’ve had, the value in signing an expensive and experienced guy is that you are telling them they better get used to playing for the coach because it’s not him leaving if they don’t perform.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Especially when your trying to build a winner, why would you pick unknowns? He reminds me of GG when he would experiment with putting defenseman on their off sides and push an idea even when it wasn't working. Playing Brouwer and Neal even while it wasn't working. The process has proved to be a false narrative that gave the impression things would eventually get better and improve. How hard is it to go out and get a proven coach and then work from there???

A lot of wasted efforts and seasons!

We are spending to the cap, you are right it is crazy that we'd skimp on the coach.

Gotta maximize that investment. You need a coach that can make that $80M look like $100M.