Brad Treliving needs to go

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

yeah, time to hit the reset button for sure...not sure if its blowing it up or just moving a number of long term guys that haven't been able to get Calgary over the top.

I will say, one thing that I was disappointed in this offseason was Calgary not trying to upgrade their forwards; Not getting a guy like Toffoli was straight up baffling to me...This team can't buy a goal in a tight game and the Flames did zero to address that.

You assume Toffoli would have wanted to come here. Why?

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your assumption is highly unlikely.

Treliving has two years left after this one on his contract, I believe. We’re coming off a season with zero gate or concession revenues. Not only that but Edwards other businesses have likely taken a pounding. They just fired a coach and replaced him with one who I’m sure has a higher salary. Why would the owners now choose to fire the GM, pay out the remainder of his contract plus the amount his replacement would cost? Is the plan to fire and hire based on pedigree and previous success, Lombardi? Or cheap out and go with a first timer like Kevin Weeks? Is it just Treliving that’s going to get gassed, or is Maloney & Conroy out as well? Who replaces them? Or do the Flames go the Sabres route and run with a one man show? That sounds good.

Treliving is here for at least this season and next.

Not saying I disagree, but hypothetically if the Flames are sellers this deadline, and intend to rebuild in that case, this team could be even worse next season since they are lottery pick hunting.

If that's the case, Treliving's record should be even worse next year, and there isn't a guarantee that his attempt at the rebuild will pan out to justify extending him while it's in process. So in that case for the Flames owners, if they're waiting to see his results for next year before canning him, what indicators could they get that would give them confidence that the team will progressively get better each season beyond his current contract?

I think that if the owners are going to be sellers with the intention of rebuilding, then the next few seasons are a wash in their minds. If that's the case, then Treliving future with the team will need to be decided this summer since they will need to have a GM that's going to run the rebuild from the beginning. If they don't have confidence in keeping Treliving for possibly another 3-5 years in this scenario, then he should be canned this off season to bring in someone else that they intend to keep for at least that long.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I will acknowledge that most probably want him gone. Doesn’t mean it’s the smart thing to do though. After all we still have people complaining that he hasn’t brought in an elite coach or goaltender.

And I don’t “want him gone” even though that’s how the poll is worded. I believe we can do better in the GM department, and while there is risk in change, this is a organization sadly in need of it. I believe your next GM is more likely to yield better results than the current one.

Is Treliving a better GM now than he was seven years ago and we would benefit from his experience? Maybe, almost undoubtedly really, but there is still little evidence of that. Some claim he learns from his mistakes yet this past off season still showed a reliance on older UFA’s and more inability to get value for his assets in trades. I don’t know the guy personally to be able to conclude if he is stubborn or flexible, forward thinking or focused on what’s in front of him. I know what the evidence points to.

[NewFan]

I think owners didn't want to go full rebuild and GM tried to keep these players and build around them but now we all see these players can't win the cup as is.
Hope The owners can see the problem now, and the economy is also not good and so they should allow GM to rebuild the team from zero, while saving some cap money next 2-3 years. I think BT can do this rebuild with Sutter.

[Flamesfan05]

Not sure why it’s debatable

Treliving had 7 yrs and now the team is at the bottom of the league and their direction is down.

He built a bad product, why should he be allowed to continue?

Do you get to keep your job if you don’t produce but look like you are doing something?

[Flamescuprun2018]

For me the blame rests mostly with this core. They cannot get it done. Their mental toughness is completely absent.

BT and many of us believed they could recapture the 18-19 regular season magic especially with the addition of a Vezina calibre goalie and growth from some of our young D core.

It did not happen. In fact the opposite occurred. Shocking but c'est la vie.

BT has gone about his business as he should. He gets an F for two terrible UFA signings in Brouwer and Neal and a terrible trade for Hamonic. He should have also brought an experienced winner NHL head coach sooner. But cannot fault him for much else.

Which means BT gets a chance to retool this mess. He has already rebuilt our drafting and development program. I have significant faith in such.

Get some value back right now before some of these assets expire.

Will he be bold enough...we will soon find out.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I think owners didn't want to go full rebuild and GM tried to keep these players and build around them but now we all see these players can't win the cup as is.
Hope The owners can see the problem now, and the economy is also not good and so they should allow GM to rebuild the team from zero, while saving some cap money next 2-3 years. I think BT can do this rebuild with Sutter.

He built a bad team once, what make you think he knows how to build a winning team?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

For me the blame rests mostly with this core. They cannot get it done. Their mental toughness is completely absent.

BT and many of us believed they could recapture the 18-19 regular season magic especially with the addition of a Vezina calibre goalie and growth from some of our young D core.

It did not happen. In fact the opposite occurred. Shocking but c'est la vie.

BT has gone about his business as he should. He gets an F for two terrible UFA signings in Brouwer and Neal and a terrible trade for Hamonic. He should have also brought an experienced winner NHL head coach sooner. But cannot fault him for much else.

Which means BT gets a chance to retool this mess. He has already rebuilt our drafting and development program. I have significant faith in such.

Get some value back right now before some of these assets expire.

Will he be bold enough...we will soon find out.

What Vezina level goaltending?

The guy lost the job to demko in last year playoffs

Once again Treliving made a bad UFA signing


Also, if the core is bad, who put together this core?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

What Vezina level goaltending?

The guy lost the job to demko in last year playoffs

Once again Treliving made a bad UFA signing


Also, if the core is bad, who put together this core?

Markstrom was hurt. He didn’t lose the crease. Get that straight. Markstrom is definitely a Vezina caliber goalie.

EDIT: here you go

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-...lie-situation/

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

He built a bad team once, what make you think he knows how to build a winning team?

You don’t think people are capable of gaining experience and knowledge?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

For me the blame rests mostly with this core. They cannot get it done. Their mental toughness is completely absent.

BT and many of us believed they could recapture the 18-19 regular season magic especially with the addition of a Vezina calibre goalie and growth from some of our young D core.

It did not happen. In fact the opposite occurred. Shocking but c'est la vie.

BT has gone about his business as he should. He gets an F for two terrible UFA signings in Brouwer and Neal and a terrible trade for Hamonic. He should have also brought an experienced winner NHL head coach sooner. But cannot fault him for much else.

Which means BT gets a chance to retool this mess. He has already rebuilt our drafting and development program. I have significant faith in such.

Get some value back right now before some of these assets expire.

Will he be bold enough...we will soon find out.

Pretty accurate assessment of the current state of affairs.

[powderjunkie]

BT probably deserves to be fired based on the results (though I still wonder whether ownership ever stopped him from trading away big pieces).

But the more important question to me is who is the best person to navigate the next 6-18 months? IMO the answer is BT. There is just too much going on and not enough time for a new guy to do the typical analysis period.

Another practical reason is that having a new GM start their tenure by trading away big pieces for underwhelming returns could loom over their tenure (what 3 moves do we remember most from Feaster? Iggy, Bouw, Janko). I suspect prospective hires might also be more enticed by a cleaner slate than having to start with deconstruction.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

BT probably deserves to be fired based on the results (though I still wonder whether ownership ever stopped him from trading away big pieces).

But the more important question to me is who is the best person to navigate the next 6-18 months? IMO the answer is BT. There is just too much going on and not enough time for a new guy to do the typical analysis period.

Another practical reason is that having a new GM start their tenure by trading away big pieces for underwhelming returns could loom over their tenure (what 3 moves do we remember most from Feaster? Iggy, Bouw, Janko). I suspect prospective hires might also be more enticed by a cleaner slate than having to start with deconstruction.

Good points. I would also add that often we see new GM’s come into a new situation and they ‘want to see what they have’ before real change is enacted. If people think there’s going to be immediate change with a new GM at the wheel, I strongly question that assumption.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You don’t think people are capable of gaining experience and knowledge?

Lol.

This isn't an entry level position with a recent graduate. Treliving has been around the game for many years and was an AGM before. He has had 7 years to build a winner and he couldn't accomplish that. He has spent to the cap almost freakin year so he wasn't constrained by anything.

Yes, I am sure he has learned some things on the job but he is getting paid millions of dollars to execute. If he wanted to learn because he is so raw, maybe he should have asked to shadow another GM or take a massive pay cut. I guarantee, in his interview, he sold himself as someone who is ready so let's treat him that way.

It's attitude like yours as a poster why the team continues to be mediocre for decades - "He is a nice guy and should be given a chance". "He is learning". Have you had a job in your life before? Or are you related to Treliving? There is something called accountability - especially when you are in an executive position.

Sure, learn for the first few years if you must. But you shouldn't be learning basics on how to build a team, 7 years into your tenure. What a joke.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Lol.

This isn't an entry level position with a recent graduate. Treliving has been around the game for many years and was an AGM before. He has had 7 years to build a winner and he couldn't accomplish that. He has spent to the cap almost freakin year so he wasn't constrained by anything.

Yes, I am sure he has learned some things on the job but he is getting paid millions of dollars to execute. If he wanted to learn because he is so raw, maybe he should have asked to shadow another GM or take a massive pay cut. I guarantee, in his interview, he sold himself as someone who is ready so let's treat him that way.

It's attitude like you as a poster why the team continues to be mediocre for decades - "He is a nice guy and should be given a chance". "He is learning". Have you had a job in your life before? Or are you related to Treliving? There is something called accountability - especially when you are in an executive position.

Haha. Good stuff man. Honestly made me laugh out loud.

[NewFan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

He built a bad team once, what make you think he knows how to build a winning team?

Then who is your next GM? I don't think it is easy work the build a winning team. Otherwise every rebuilding teams should be winning now or soon.

BT is hard working GM. He had some limits how manage the team from the top. I'm sure he learned lots last 7 years.
Now he needs some freedom to rebuild the team and a good adviser to help him.

[ricardodw]

I voted to fire the bum, but when firing anyone you need to have someone who will be an improvement. The Flames as an organization do not have a good track record in finding and or attracting good GMs. Maybe it has to do with the Oil business culture and the external events that make the managers look brilliant or impossibly stupid.

I seems that the Flames are always in a hurry and involved in chasing the quick fix.

Pretty much no teams are built on signing UFAs and the Flames are always making a UFA Splash winning a bidding war rather than looking for bargains.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by NewFan

Then who is your next GM? I don't think it is easy work the build a winning team. Otherwise every rebuilding teams should be winning now or soon.

BT is hard working GM. He had some limits how manage the team from the top. I'm sure he learned lots last 7 years.
Now he needs some freedom to rebuild the team and a good adviser to help him.

What freaking limits? The dude has spent to the cap almost every year and has been allowed numerous buyouts. There are GMs who have gotten way better results with ACTUAL financial limitations.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You don’t think people are capable of gaining experience and knowledge?

Maybe Johnny and Monahan are gaining experience and knowledge too. The Flames should hang on to them long term. They are just about to get it.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Lol.

This isn't an entry level position with a recent graduate. Treliving has been around the game for many years and was an AGM before. He has had 7 years to build a winner and he couldn't accomplish that. He has spent to the cap almost freakin year so he wasn't constrained by anything...

Not only has he not built a winning team, but he’s leveraged the future to build it into what it is.

The Calgary Flames have only selected three times in the top 61 during the last 3 drafts. That’s tied with Pittsburgh for fewest in the league. How the hell did he manage that while accomplishing absolutely nothing?

“Sacrifice the future to suck today” is how you could summarize Treliving’s last 3 years as General Manager of this team. That’s what the results say, and that’s all that matters at the end of the day.