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Old 09-06-2013, 01:51 PM   #401
stazzy33
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But could that also mean lower prices on routes to Europe from YYC? If more people are flying from Edmonton instead of Calgary, wouldn't the lack of demand turn into a lower cost for the consumer?
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Old 09-06-2013, 02:15 PM   #402
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If the flight folds due to economics, it'll be a moot point. It'll be interesting to see if the YEG-KEF flights can be full enough year round to make the economics work. Business travel should be minimal given the lack of ties to Iceland, and the lack of coveted Aeroplan/BA Executive Club points (how's their biz class product?) While KEF does have it's share of connections onward - there are way way more at LHR or FRA.

That leaves people going for lowest fare to visit Aunt Vigdisdottir and tourism to Iceland and points beyond in Europe. Can you build a route off of that? How does the IcelandAir fare compare to say one of the Thomas Cook or Air Transat(rocious) charter fares to LHR? Betcha it's not much cheaper.

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Old 09-06-2013, 02:18 PM   #403
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I doubt Icelandair will have much of an impact on YYC. It will have an impact on YEG and the Transat style European summer flights I cant imagine but how much, who knows. Maybe AC cuts YEG-LHR to 5 weekly in the winter or maybe they will cut it altogether and funnel people to YYC or YYZ
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Old 09-06-2013, 02:55 PM   #404
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Some comparisons or fares between Icelandair and Air Transat and similar operators from AB-Europe still have Icelandair coming out on top. And if both airlines are sardine cans I'd much rather split the trans-Altantic flight into two with FI (Icelandair).

All the points being made are valid, I just don't like to see YYC losing any ground to YEG. We have a fancy new transborder/international terminal that I would like to see full and being utilized effectively from day one.
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:32 PM   #405
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I'd just like to see some more non-charter, non-North American livery at our fine airport. One airline is not enough
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:37 PM   #406
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I'd just like to see some more non-charter, non-North American livery at our fine airport. One airline is not enough
We have two, British Airways and KLM. Used to be three when Lufthansa operated a flight to Frankfurt as well.
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:51 PM   #407
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We have two, British Airways and KLM. Used to be three when Lufthansa operated a flight to Frankfurt as well.
Forgot about BA.
I miss Lufthansa. I was on one of the last flights operated by them to Frankfurt.
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:57 PM   #408
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Forgot about BA.
I miss Lufthansa. I was on one of the last flights operated by them to Frankfurt.
Fun fact: Their last flight from YYC to FRA one of the pilots was born and raised in Calgary:


Lufthansa Low Pass by BigtimeYYC, on Flickr
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:24 PM   #409
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Remember that crazy crosswind landing at YYC that sort of went viral? That was a LF bird wasn't it?
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:37 PM   #410
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The biggest drawback of the YEG-KEF route(other then Edmonton of course) is flying on a 757 for hours on end.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:45 PM   #411
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Remember that crazy crosswind landing at YYC that sort of went viral? That was a LF bird wasn't it?
Indeed it was.
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:46 PM   #412
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The biggest drawback of the YEG-KEF route(other then Edmonton of course) is flying on a 757 for hours on end.
No worse than being stuck on a 757 from Hawaii to the west coast.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:00 AM   #413
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In other news I am somewhat ticked that Icelandair announced service to YEG this week (4x weekly starting next year).

Definitely a case of tapping into an under-served YEG-Europe market, but it is little things like this that can chip away at what we are building here in YYC, and the CAA and board should be on top of these things and work to minimize the impact it could have on passenger numbers here.

Bright spots on the horizon are the almost all but guaranteed AC YYC-PEK route (once they have the metal for it) and another mystery Asia flight that will stop in YEG as part of the routing to us.
That is part of there plan, find under served markets and build up a good following. It is one of the reasons they went after Halifax instead of Montreal years ago, they felt they couldn't compete with Transat for the traffic. The last time I looked at the numbers Icelandair had about 75% transit passengers, most others just stayed in Iceland for under 3 days. It is interesting the Canadian government is giving them wide access to our country (up to 4 cities) while the gulf carriers have gone no where in years. I know Emirates and GTAA have had talks with Government in August to get answers; if one transit carrier is fine, why isn't the other.

Aeromexico had talks with YYC at the start of the year, now I doubt anything will happen as I don't think the demand was there, plus they would have to shift slots in Mexico city because they are slot constrained. But in a year or two it is something that definitely has potential.

The Mexican government also wants its citizens to be able to transit in Canada with no transit visa (similar to which many Asian countries can do if they end up in the US), in Mexico's case they want Mexicans to be able to transfer in Canada visa free if there end destination is select Europe and Asian countries.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:06 AM   #414
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That is part of there plan, find under served markets and build up a good following. It is one of the reasons they went after Halifax instead of Montreal years ago, they felt they couldn't compete with Transat for the traffic. The last time I looked at the numbers Icelandair had about 75% transit passengers, most others just stayed in Iceland for under 3 days. It is interesting the Canadian government is giving them wide access to our country (up to 4 cities) while the gulf carriers have gone no where in years. I know Emirates and GTAA have had talks with Government in August to get answers; if one transit carrier is fine, why isn't the other.

Aeromexico had talks with YYC at the start of the year, now I doubt anything will happen as I don't think the demand was there, plus they would have to shift slots in Mexico city because they are slot constrained. But in a year or two it is something that definitely has potential.

The Mexican government also wants its citizens to be able to transit in Canada with no transit visa (similar to which many Asian countries can do if they end up in the US), in Mexico's case they want Mexicans to be able to transfer in Canada visa free if there end destination is select Europe and Asian countries.
In response to the bolded part, did Icelandair ever throw public hissy fits and cancel military base contracts over their perceived lack of rights into Canada (when their 3x weekly service was their own fault for not taking all 6x weekly frequencies offered initially)?

Other Gulf carriers have watched that, and are playing ball in a much better way (Qatar, Etihad, etc). Look to see them get results before the whiners.

I too have heard rumblings about Aeromexico coming back to YYC and YEG, for a brief period a few years ago (before the Visa spat) we had both Aeromexico and Mexicana coming here. When Mexicana went belly up one of their Airbus' was actually stuck here, parked over at the AC hangar for quite some time. It would be nice to have regular service to Mexico City, but right now I'd guess the majority of folks heading to Mexico are going to holiday spots, and WS, Sunwing, Transat, and AC have those routes very well covered.
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:17 PM   #415
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In response to the bolded part, did Icelandair ever throw public hissy fits and cancel military base contracts over their perceived lack of rights into Canada (when their 3x weekly service was their own fault for not taking all 6x weekly frequencies offered initially)?

Other Gulf carriers have watched that, and are playing ball in a much better way (Qatar, Etihad, etc). Look to see them get results before the whiners.

I too have heard rumblings about Aeromexico coming back to YYC and YEG, for a brief period a few years ago (before the Visa spat) we had both Aeromexico and Mexicana coming here. When Mexicana went belly up one of their Airbus' was actually stuck here, parked over at the AC hangar for quite some time. It would be nice to have regular service to Mexico City, but right now I'd guess the majority of folks heading to Mexico are going to holiday spots, and WS, Sunwing, Transat, and AC have those routes very well covered.
I don't want this to get political, nor do I want to get overly into the topic (I really don't care that much), but it gets really complicated. Emirates was granted 6 weekly, than government said it was for country not airline (which is actually how it should be), Etihad than took the other 3. Government was expected to grand more landing rights, the Airports, the airlines, and provinces all had this expectation. This is when rumours come in: and I have heard them from several people in different companies that when AC heard they were coming used there sway to block them in Ottawa, this part I know is true, AC went to Emirates and Etihad and asked for up to 50% of the profits on Canada-UAE routes. They both declined.

I have deal with many different airlines, consulting firms and airport Authorities and the general consensus is that Canadian government was in the wrong. This is slowly changing, Etihad and AC now have code shares, and the UAE is spending a large dollar amount on Canadian flight simulators and the thinking is by some time next year there will be more slots for Etihad and Emirates.

Qatar is separate, good relationship with Canada (governmentally speaking), have 3x weekly into Montreal, and 3x weekly into Toronto (Cargo only), and with there Airport expansion and new planes coming in it is expected they will ask to fly passengers into Toronto and 2014 and will get it. Turkish (I know there not gulf), will increase there presence in Canada too, but likely will be dailies from Toronto, and 3-4x week from Montreal.

Calgary wants one of the gulf carriers (as does Vancouver, Montreal and GTAA wants dailies). The three priorities cities however (as per my knowledge while working for the GTAA) is Beijing, Paris and Mexico city. I mentioned before about Mexico city, it would have to be Aeromexico as AC cannot receive more slots without buying from another Carrier (slot constrained), Beijing will happen with the 787, just depends where it lands with priority with AC, and I have heard things floated for Paris. The only likely one I could see is YVR-YYC-CDG; This is similar to Toronto-Geneva (which stops in Montreal first).
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:36 PM   #416
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Airtransat already does a YVR-YYC-CDG?

Or are charters separate?
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:42 PM   #417
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Airtransat already does a YVR-YYC-CDG?

Or are charters separate?
Should have clarified, what I mentioned was for business travel, not leisure. AT flys it once a week I believe (aimed at leisure), CAA want 3-4x week, with possibility of connections on both ends.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:02 PM   #418
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Should have clarified, what I mentioned was for business travel, not leisure. AT flys it once a week I believe (aimed at leisure), CAA want 3-4x week, with possibility of connections on both ends.
An AC 763 maybe? What kind of equipment were you thinking this could be?
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:17 PM   #419
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An AC 763 maybe? What kind of equipment were you thinking this could be?
Those will all be rouged in next few years. AC has to do Paris mainline, so pick a wide body? I guess the 787 is possible, but that is 100% a guess on my part, and if Air France steps in first, AC won't compete (not enough demand). Hence the YVR-YYC-CDG route that I know has been floated by consultants.

Again, don't get hopes up, new planes are coming in slow, and there are many cities that they want, and majority are out of Vancouver and Toronto, at least to start.

FYI to all I have a an accounting designation not an MBA so business sides of things aren't my forte, the financials are.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:24 PM   #420
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Yeah that route does seem a good fit for Rouge, it'd likely be the 763 then... if it were to go.
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