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Old 10-25-2016, 12:10 PM   #81
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I've grown to like Gibbons. I really didn't like him his first go around with the Jays and was not happy when they brought him back, but he's been really good his 2nd go around IMO. He's done alot with what he has been given especially having to manage some really some personalities over the years and every year his team has major flaws that he seems to work with. Deserves more credit, but I get with the way he comes across he'll never endear himself to fans.

That being said, next year is going to be a big test for him. It sure sounds like the Jays are going to change the direction of their team a bit and put more focus on some balance hitting and more team speed so it will be interesting to see how/if Gibbons adjusts. The Jays teams Gibbons has had in his tenure have all basicaly been the same, long ball or else, so if the roster changes Gibbons will need to change too.
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:31 PM   #82
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He's such a good catcher that 20M is a bargain because he has a history of turning mediocre pitchers into quality contributors and thus they can spend less on pitching.

Do the Jays starters have the year they did without Martin? I personally doubt it.
Well said. Martin really brings out the best in guys. He was trash in the playoffs however, and they should've had Navaro playing game 5 IMO.
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Old 10-25-2016, 05:17 PM   #83
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Not to mention back to back ALCS appearances.

He does most things right. You don't achieve that kind of success by accident.
Baseball managers are probably the least influential of the 4 major sports (Basketball, Football and Hockey). A paperweight could have managed the Yankees to WS championships. Yes, you can achieve that kind of success by accident.

I think Gibbons has good bullpen management and good lineup construction - my only concern with him is how he manages the players and if he holds guys accountable. He has never struck me to be one of those taskmasters/tactical guys like Francona or Maddon.
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:29 AM   #84
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Baseball managers are probably the least influential of the 4 major sports (Basketball, Football and Hockey). A paperweight could have managed the Yankees to WS championships. Yes, you can achieve that kind of success by accident.

I think Gibbons has good bullpen management and good lineup construction - my only concern with him is how he manages the players and if he holds guys accountable. He has never struck me to be one of those taskmasters/tactical guys like Francona or Maddon.
I think MLB managers are far more effective when they have the people-managing skills to handle several personalities over 162+ games.

The MLB is also the most stat driven league in the world. You could manage an entire team based on stats nowadays.
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Old 10-26-2016, 11:06 AM   #85
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yeah baseball manager's job is more off the field than on.

Although I wish Gibbons had a bit more fire. Go argue with the ump before your players have to. Go to the mound and stall more. Does he ever go out to the mound and not take the pitcher out?
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Old 10-26-2016, 11:13 AM   #86
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yeah baseball manager's job is more off the field than on.

Although I wish Gibbons had a bit more fire. Go argue with the ump before your players have to. Go to the mound and stall more. Does he ever go out to the mound and not take the pitcher out?
Gibbons led the league in ejections this year I think. Not sure he could argue anymore with the Umps than he already does. At one point in July he had more ejections than any complete roster in MLB.

Last edited by TheAlpineOracle; 10-26-2016 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 10-26-2016, 12:24 PM   #87
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He gets ejected when one of his players got ejected.
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:54 PM   #88
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He gets ejected when one of his players got ejected.
Huh? He gets ejected like clockwork, sometimes when players get ejected, sometimes when he's arguing balls and strikes or sometimes when he just feels like taking a stroll out on the field to discuss something, lol.
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:10 PM   #89
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Reports that Jose will reject the qualifying offer and has a lot of interest in Boston
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:17 PM   #90
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/\ Perfect
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:03 PM   #91
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I still think Bautista is going to be a productive hitter. Last season was an off year due to injuries and the contract he ends up signing will be a bit of bargain compared to what he'll produce IMO.

As many have said though, he'd probably be better as a DH or 1B because his arm is gone and his defense just isn't what it used to be.

Jays need a different type of hitter though. they need a left handed or switch hitting bat who can hit for average, get on base a ton, and mix in decent power numbers, albeit reduced from the 40+ we'd be looking for from an EE or JB.

Too bad those types of hitters aren't easily available.

Mentioned earlier, but Votto is the type of hitter I just described that the Jays need in their line up.

Dream come true honestly for next season would be to somehow grab Votto for a song, and sign Dexter Fowler as a free agent. Shore up the bullpen and the Jays would be a tough team to beat.
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:03 PM   #92
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I'm guessing it's Bautista's camp planting the story. No doubt the guy would legitimately be interested in Boston, but it's more about presenting a worst case scenario for the Jays if he goes there and tears it up. Another one where I think there's a possibility will be the Dodgers if AA goes back to a guy he knows. I definitely agree he's probably going to do better next year than he did this year, but his overall trajectory is downward and I can't see how a team will break the bank for him unless it is one of those teams who are within inches of winning it and do a two year high price special. No way do I see a long term commitment from anyone. Do that and expose yourself as one of those idiot GM's.
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:37 PM   #93
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Reports that Jose will reject the qualifying offer and has a lot of interest in Boston
Good! Hopefully the Red Sox overpay for his declining skills.
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Old 10-29-2016, 11:53 PM   #94
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Good they can focus on Joey Bats and we can sign EE to a deal.
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Old 10-30-2016, 12:00 AM   #95
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Good! Hopefully the Red Sox overpay for his declining skills.
And that his reputation for being a whiner inflates their batter's strike-zone.
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Old 10-30-2016, 04:18 AM   #96
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I'm thinking that if the Jays offer to just take Votto's contract without having them eat too much $ on it, the Reds probably would be glad to move it. He makes 22 mil next year and then 25 for the balance until he's 40.

It would likely be something akin to the Donaldson deal where they include a filler major leaguer like Smoak (Lawrie), two arms that are decent and close to the majors, and one good prospect that's raw (Barretto).
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:52 AM   #97
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I'm thinking that if the Jays offer to just take Votto's contract without having them eat too much $ on it, the Reds probably would be glad to move it. He makes 22 mil next year and then 25 for the balance until he's 40.

It would likely be something akin to the Donaldson deal where they include a filler major leaguer like Smoak (Lawrie), two arms that are decent and close to the majors, and one good prospect that's raw (Barretto).
But Donaldson was younger at the time and wasn't locked in long term. I think it should cost less to acquire Votto, at least the Jays shouldn't be paying anywhere near what they had to for Donaldson, but that's just my opinion.

$25 million till 40? I think you might as well give Encarnacion $100 million over 4 years, he would still be younger at the end of that contract. At least you know what you are getting. Votto is good no doubt but you never know what a change of scenery might do. Also heard he suffer from anxiety or something like that which is a reason why he himself isn't big on playing at home due to added pressure.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:15 PM   #98
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I'm thinking that if the Jays offer to just take Votto's contract without having them eat too much $ on it, the Reds probably would be glad to move it. He makes 22 mil next year and then 25 for the balance until he's 40.

It would likely be something akin to the Donaldson deal where they include a filler major leaguer like Smoak (Lawrie), two arms that are decent and close to the majors, and one good prospect that's raw (Barretto).
I'd love to see Votto in Toronto, he's such a great hitter. I've seen no signs of a decline, so his contract doesn't really bother me as I think in the final few years if his defense struggles he could be a good DH still. I also think Votto would be excellent protection for Donaldson in the lineup, better than either Bautista or Encarnacion.
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:51 PM   #99
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Good! Hopefully the Red Sox overpay for his declining skills.
I also look forward to watching him take his usual route to a routine pop up like this:

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Old 10-31-2016, 11:58 AM   #100
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I also think Votto would be excellent protection for Donaldson in the lineup
Line-up Protection is a myth. Hitters don't have a noticeably different wOBA on balls in play regardless of the strength of the subsequent batter.

Really the point is moot... Votto's contract is not good and he has a NTC (and from what I understand would prefer not to play in Toronto... doesn't want the pressure of being the hometown boy).
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