Batman Prequel "Gotham" Greenlit: Fox

[Resolute 14]

Bad call to introduce every bad guy in the same episode. If they keep them all around, the need to divide screen time will prevent the writers from really developing the characters due to a lack of screen time. Also, it now locks the characters into specific origins that cannot be modified in the future without an embarrassing retcon. The introduction of Poison Ivy stood out to me. She served no purpose in the pilot, and logically, won't serve any value until about season 10 unless they want to make her a 12-year-old eco terrorist.

Would have been better, imo, to start with a smaller cast of characters and rotate them in and out as story arcs progressed.

I also thought they completely muffed everything about Bruce Wayne. I almost turned the show off in the first five minutes after the richest people in Gotham are gunned down walking down an alley looking for a cab. At least Batman Begins provided a plausible excuse for their being there. Agreed with Teh_Bandwagoner about the lack of need for the scene on the roof. That scene stood as a sign to me that the writers of the show don't think it can stand on its own without Batman to support it. Also, the Alfred character came off as eminently punchable and rather unlikable.

On the plus side, there is great potential for solid black and grey morality-themed stories with Gordon and Bullock playing off of each other. The show is ultimately going to pass or fail based on these two characters, and the pilot was promising in that regard. Especially at the end. Also a fan of Jada Pinkett Smith's character. She played the role well, and adding a new villain to the mix offers the show an X-factor that doesn't exist with most other characters unless they want to break canon.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

The Alfred character pissed me off mightily.

From what they've shown us, the Alfred character changes are probably the biggest error in judgement for the show...

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Bad call to introduce every bad guy in the same episode. If they keep them all around, the need to divide screen time will prevent the writers from really developing the characters due to a lack of screen time. Also, it now locks the characters into specific origins that cannot be modified in the future without an embarrassing retcon. The introduction of Poison Ivy stood out to me. She served no purpose in the pilot, and logically, won't serve any value until about season 10 unless they want to make her a 12-year-old eco terrorist.

Would have been better, imo, to start with a smaller cast of characters and rotate them in and out as story arcs progressed.

I have a wait and see attitude on this. The storyline IS in it for the long haul and Gotham, from what we've been shown so far, is going to be a character driven story not a serial monster of the week which is what your description seems to suggest it should be. That has been done to death. This story telling is more like Breaking Bad then the serial series X-files.

[Resolute 14]

No, not a monster of the week premise, but one of arcs - multiple at once - each woven together. In the pilot alone, Fish, Penguin, Ivy, Catwoman, Riddler and Falcone are all introduced. Probably others I lost track of. And there are still more to come. Never mind the two major crimes detectives and Gordon's love interest. Too many people to develop with only 48 minutes a week if they want to keep them all around.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Traditional networks are under pressure to rush storylines and make every episode big, to hit big numbers right away, so that's the reason for the reveal of so many big characters right away. Which is unfortunate, because the way it was talked about in the media, they talked up a slow reveal.

However, the average TV viewer is a lot more seasoned now and expects a lot more. Unless they're a rabid reality show viewer, the public doesn't mind a slow build anymore as long as the payoff is there.

I think Gotham fails (and fails fairly quickly, maybe a season and a half?) not because it can't be great or because there aren't people who believe in it, but because it's being pulled in two different directions and will ultimately fail at both. The studio will wreck it, the writers won't be able to do what they want or what they should.

I wasn't a huge fan of some of the acting either, but I'm going to give that a pass based on the content of the show and the fact that writing and directing can really bring out acting, and as I mentioned, I don't think the writers are going to get the opportunity to do it right here.

I might like this show on a pay network like AMC or HBO. Actually, it'd probably be right up FX's alley.

Your post nailed why I never pay attention to any network TV shows. If Gotham had been picked up my AMC or Netflix I'd be interested, but being on Fox I'll pass. And I only had to watch the trailers to see how bad the acting was, why is it that no network TV show since Lost can find decent actors? That's the main reason I just can't get into SHIELD, I'm really into learning more about the Marvel universe but trying to watch a single episode of that was just cringe worthy

[Igster]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Your post nailed why I never pay attention to any network TV shows. If Gotham had been picked up my AMC or Netflix I'd be interested, but being on Fox I'll pass. And I only had to watch the trailers to see how bad the acting was, why is it that no network TV show since Lost can find decent actors? That's the main reason I just can't get into SHIELD, I'm really into learning more about the Marvel universe but trying to watch a single episode of that was just cringe worthy

There is lots of fantastic acting on TV. Problem is, most seem to ignore the shows they are on. While a completely different show than the topic of discussion here, Parenthood has some of the best acting on television. Yet the show garners a tiny audience and NBC has kept it around this long simply because the critics love it.

The general audience it seems likes schlock and couldn't care less about "good" acting.

I watched the pilot of Gotham and laughed out loud at most of the acting and scenes as it was painfully atrocious.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Your post nailed why I never pay attention to any network TV shows. If Gotham had been picked up my AMC or Netflix I'd be interested, but being on Fox I'll pass. And I only had to watch the trailers to see how bad the acting was, why is it that no network TV show since Lost can find decent actors? That's the main reason I just can't get into SHIELD, I'm really into learning more about the Marvel universe but trying to watch a single episode of that was just cringe worthy

Yeah, I agree with all of that too. I've all but given up on network TV. Hannibal was amazing (and the acting was phenomenal, if you haven't seen it, check it out just for that), but I'm having trouble thinking of another drama on network that's a must watch for me. Sitcoms are garbage mostly too, I might have one guilty pleasure there, not going to mention it. But you see a comedy like Silicon Valley on HBO and you see what a comedy can really aspire to now.

Funny enough, I generally don't like most super hero or comic book stuff either. I'll watch some of the big ones (The Dark Knight, Spider-Man) and some of the more obscure ones (Watchmen, V For Vendetta) but I skip most of the comic summer blockbusters. But for some reason I decided to give this a try. I was actually pleasantly surprised by a few parts of it, but pretty much think it will fail for the reasons listed.

And yeah, I can usually peg bad acting from a 30 second spot, or a 2 minute trailer. In fact I get really tired of being that guy sitting with my buddies in the theater that sits through a trailer to hear 'wow that looks amazing!' when I honestly feel 'are you serious? dear god, that acting, that writing!' but for some reason I gave this a go. I dunno, I was curious. To be honest, Jada Pinkett was pretty good, and so was the guy who played Penguin. But Gordon and especially the partner, ack! And it went downhill from there.

And I can't figure out if that's more on the actors, or just the limits of the writers and direction. But yeah, the acting was very network. A few bright spots, but showing to lack more and more when compared to the premium channels.

Anyway, kinda went around and around a bit on that reply. Just wanted to agree with you about network television (while plugging Hannibal) and explain why I gave this one a go. Cause even I wasn't sure, it's generally not my cup of tea. I guess I just wanted to see what they were going to do with it. I may watch the second episode, just to see if my feeling remain the same. I assume they will, and I'll lose interest fairly quick.

[RyZ]

I just watched it tonight and I quite liked it. Im dont think that award level acting is necessary and I thought the acting was just fine for a super hero based TV show. There are other areas that I hope they put their time and resources into.

Ill be back again next week for sure.

[Wastedyouth]

Another issue is, when watched the trailer, it seemed like a gritty cop show with some DC elements in it.

They filmed and acted in it like its basically another WB Smallville type show.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but from the trailers I thought it was going to be better.

[trackercowe]

Is anyone else far more interested in Marvel's Nexflix plan? Not saying it will necessarily be better, but at least with that I can find out all at once, and if it's good enough I'll watch it all in a week (and go back every so often if it's worthwhile); if it's bad I'll stop watching a few episodes in.

With something like Gotham I'll probably keep watching for a few weeks, it'll hold my interest for a bit, but eventually that will wain. The same thing happened with Smallville, and many other network shows. Aside from 24 I don't think there's a single network show I've watched to its finality since Lost back in the day. Meanwhile I'm linked to the end with True Detective, Boardwalk Empire, Game of Thrones, Justified, American Horror Story, etc and was for Breaking Bad, Dexter, The Wire, and The Sopranos. Even in the case of Dexter I still watched in every week, after I became invested early on.

Maybe it's because I expect more out of Marvel as well, and I can't wait to see what Vincent D'Onofrio brings to the role as Kingpin. Plus with the DC universe we already know there is going to be bigger iterations of almost most of the shows they have on the air, but the same may not apply for Daredevil, Luke Cage, and hopefully Punisher if they go that route with him. So I'm looking forward to see what that universe can offer, but Gotham (and the like) is going to have to do that much better to have me be a viewer eight months from now.

[OutOfTheCube]

The thing with all these 'young' villains is that there can't really be a pay-off. Batman is the one that eventually takes these guys down and there won't be a Batman for 15 years.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that we have to look at this for what it is. That was the pilot that was shot to sell this show to the network, so year, they probably threw every villian that they could into it so sell it, especially since they were looking for a fairly substantial budget.

And I look at the acting, and yeah it was spotty in places, but if you go back to most pilots where the actors are still figuring out their character you tend to get that. Go back and look at the pilot for Buffy the Vampire slayer for example, it was pretty horrible.

Anyways, not trying to justify anything.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think that we have to look at this for what it is. That was the pilot that was shot to sell this show to the network, so year, they probably threw every villian that they could into it so sell it, especially since they were looking for a fairly substantial budget.

And I look at the acting, and yeah it was spotty in places, but if you go back to most pilots where the actors are still figuring out their character you tend to get that. Go back and look at the pilot for Buffy the Vampire slayer for example, it was pretty horrible.

Anyways, not trying to justify anything.

It's the in thing to be extra critical. I used to do that all the time, however, I have found life much more enjoyable by not being to judging especially about TV.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

It's the in thing to be extra critical. I used to do that all the time, however, I have found life much more enjoyable by not being to judging especially about TV.

It's not being extra critical, it's the bar being raised for TV shows so much over the past 10 years. There are so many great TV shows out now competing for viewership that a new series really has to give you cause to watch it, and I just don't see it here. I'm not invested enough in the Batman universe to overlook the B-grade acting

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

It's not being extra critical, it's the bar being raised for TV shows so much over the past 10 years. There are so many great TV shows out now competing for viewership that a new series really has to give you cause to watch it, and I just don't see it here. I'm not invested enough in the Batman universe to overlook the B-grade acting

Umm okay.

[trackercowe]

I'm sorry, I've really tried to like this show, but sadly it's pretty bad. The set design and costumes are fine, even though I still have no idea what year the show is set in (mid '90s would be my guess). Aside from that though a lot of the show if way off from what I was hoping for. Some of the performances are fine, but others are WB level; case in point this has to be the worst incantation of young Bruce Wayne I've seen.

Then there's the atrocious writing as well, like tonight when you have that guy ordering the janitor to ice a few children within earshot of two police officers. He knew the police were there or at least in the vicinity, and yet he orders the death of children? The hell kind of half-assed writing is that.

Then of course like the premiere the characterization is just too obvious; Selina Kyle wants to be called "Cat", dresses up (and occasionally walks) as a cat, and literally scratches out peoples eyes. What's next, is she going to start wearing a tail next week? Really does the show need to be that obvious. I hate when movies do that, and it's going to be even worse for a show like this to be referencing future events in every episode. I can't wait to have Bruce and Selina to be connected together, so we can be introduced to their future strained "relationship", then they can be at odds with each other like when their grownup... oh wait it's just happening as I type this.

[CaptainCrunch]

I wasn't a super big fan of this one.

They introduced the doll maker sort of, but if you didn't know about him, you wouldn't have that sense of impending doom for those kids which is a fate far worse then being served with a nice Chianti and some Fava beans.

the young Bruce Wayne stuff was really not necessary, and just clouded the issues. And the background Gordon's girlfriend learning about corruption is being pushed a little too rapidly as well.

I was ok with Selina Kyle, I guess.

I thought Penguin was strong, I did laugh at the mother of his kidnapping victim not believing him.

Fish was very strong in this one, but I didn't like how she cleared the bar, she's a very cool customer that goes into a shrieking fit?

Guess that comedian wasn't the joker after all.

A fairly week episode, but I come to expect that with new shows until they introduce their main story arc.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

Bruce Wayne scene is a bit "over the top" but what are they going to do? Have him start holding his hand over a lighter?

Yeah... so this pretty much happened lol.

Definitely not a fan of the show so far. You thought Selina being called "cat" was heavy handed? Yeah I would agree. But what's even worse is the police corruption. The whole "Gordon is good, all the other cops are corrupted" is super pushy. Seriously? The chief just straight up asks if Falcone and Fish are okay with what they're doing?? Ugh. The writers of this show need to learn something about subtlety.

The only thing I've really like so far is the Penguin side story. That was pretty awesome. And even then, enough with the "you look like a Penguin" crap.

I'll give the show a few more tries, at the very least to see the Penguin stuff to the end. But I feel very meh about the show so far.

[GreenLantern]

Second episode was great, I really enjoyed it. Felt like I was reading it right out of a comic.

The girl playing Cat made the episode. The dynamic between Gordon and Bullock got a lot better as well.

Seems like they are exposing the D&D style personalities that exist in Gotham, Lawful Good, Neutral Good etc..

We've seen a few different sides of Bullock so far as not to put him all the way over the edge.. the Captain is a bit more balanced, Gordon is mostly good, his girlfriend seems to be 100% pure good.. Bruce has a bit of a chaotic edge to him.. entertaining.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

I'm sorry, I've really tried to like this show, but sadly it's pretty bad.

Watched the first episode and I would imagine anyone reading my post above would guess, I killed the series recording after that. Didn't watch the second episode and after reading your post, glad I didn't. On to other series'.