CWHL to discontinue operations

[CanadaMatt]

The Australian Football League national woman’s competition is 3 years old. Every men’s AFL team has (or will have over the coming years) a woman’s team...same club name, same club uniform (with minor changes), same club training ground, same club song!

As with the men, there is 1 game per week.

The woman’s league starts before the men’s league starts every year, meaning little overlap and minimal competition for audiences (both TV and attending the game). The AFL off season is 5 months long (6 months for non finals teams) so by the time the woman’s season starts, folks are pumped for football.

Each regular season woman’s game attracts between 10,000 and 20,000 spectators.The woman’s grand final attracted 53,000 people.

While still in its infancy, the league will likely stand on its own (financially) within a few short years. It’s a wonderful success story, and I look forward to it every year.

The only way I see a woman’s hockey league succeeding is to carry the name and colours of existing NHL teams and piggyback on the infrastructure and goodwill of the existing teams.

Men or woman, I find hockey pretty tedious to watch when it’s not my team playing...with exceptions...but if you won’t sit down and watch Minnesota versus Arizona in February, chances are you won’t watch two woman’s teams that you have no affinity for either....which is why the woman’s teams need to be saddled up next to the men’s team.

Regardless, there’s barely enough time to watch half the Flames games in any given season, god knows where I’d find the time to watch another team too. Perhaps the men’s league could be a 60 game schedule to accommodate a woman’s competition?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Why do these women feel so entitled about playing professional sports? This isn’t amature sport where funding should be equal. No one wants to pay to watch this. Deal with it. If I was the NHL I wouldn’t touch this with a ten foot pole.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

The Australian Football League national woman’s competition is 3 years old. Every men’s AFL team has (or will have over the coming years) a woman’s team...same club name, same club uniform (with minor changes), same club training ground, same club song!

As with the men, there is 1 game per week.

The woman’s league starts before the men’s league starts every year, meaning little overlap and minimal competition for audiences (both TV and attending the game). The AFL off season is 5 months long (6 months for non finals teams) so by the time the woman’s season starts, folks are pumped for football.

Each regular season woman’s game attracts between 10,000 and 20,000 spectators.The woman’s grand final attracted 53,000 people.

While still in its infancy, the league will likely stand on its own (financially) within a few short years. It’s a wonderful success story, and I look forward to it every year.

The only way I see a woman’s hockey league succeeding is to carry the name and colours of existing NHL teams and piggyback on the infrastructure and goodwill of the existing teams.

Men or woman, I find hockey pretty tedious to watch when it’s not my team playing...with exceptions...but if you won’t sit down and watch Minnesota versus Arizona in February, chances are you won’t watch two woman’s teams that you have no affinity for either....which is why the woman’s teams need to be saddled up next to the men’s team.

Regardless, there’s barely enough time to watch half the Flames games in any given season, god knows where I’d find the time to watch another team too. Perhaps the men’s league could be a 60 game schedule to accommodate a woman’s competition?

Sorry, you are suggesting the NHL reduces its schedule to make room for something most people won’t watch for free let alone pay hundreds of dollars for a seat?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Regardless, there’s barely enough time to watch half the Flames games in any given season, god knows where I’d find the time to watch another team too. Perhaps the men’s league could be a 60 game schedule to accommodate a woman’s competition?

There is absolutely no chance in hell that the NHL and NHLPA will take a ~20% cut in revenue to accommodate a women's pro league. Right now, we're talking about flushing a few million dollars a year to support this welfare league. You're talking about lighting a billion dollars on fire.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Sorry, you are suggesting the NHL reduces its schedule to make room for something most people won’t watch for free let alone pay hundreds of dollars for a seat?

Calm down mate, I was saying what I thought needed to happen to make a woman's league successful. I’m not suggesting the NHL should do any of these things, but without them there is zero chance of a woman’s league being successful IMHO.

Regardless of a woman’s league or not, the NHL season is 2 months too long. Regardless of a woman’s league, a 60 game season with best if 5 playoffs would be better, again IMHO

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Regardless of a woman’s league or not, the NHL season is 2 months too long. Regardless of a woman’s league, a 60 game season with best if 5 playoffs would be better, again IMHO

Define "better." I'm sure the NHL isn't willing to give up revenue for 350+ games and I'm sure the players aren't going to volunteer to take 25%+ paycuts.

The season can be long for us fans, but it's not hurting their pockets. It is afterall a business, so the only thing that matters to them is cold hard cash.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Define "better." I'm sure the NHL isn't willing to give up revenue for 350+ games and I'm sure the players aren't going to volunteer to take 25%+ paycuts.

The season can be long for us fans, but it's not hurting their pockets.

I don’t disagree that it’s a non-starter. Which is why a woman’s NHL league is also a non-starter.

...and here we are almost in June, and the Stanley cup final hasnt even started yet. Yawn

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

Calm down mate, I was saying what I thought needed to happen to make a woman's league successful. I’m not suggesting the NHL should do any of these things, but without them there is zero chance of a woman’s league being successful IMHO.

Regardless of a woman’s league or not, the NHL season is 2 months too long. Regardless of a woman’s league, a 60 game season with best if 5 playoffs would be better, again IMHO

I don’t think a woman’s hockey league will ever be successful. There is just far too much of a speed and strength discrepancy which are the two components that make hockey exciting to the masses. The best woman’s hockey player ever to live in her prime couldn’t cut it in effectively a beer league in Europe. No one is paying to watch that.

I’m not trying to #### on women’s hockey and I’m all for equal opportunity at the amateur level, but this is professional sports and not a charity.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I don’t think a woman’s hockey league will ever be successful. There is just far too much of a speed and strength discrepancy which are the two components that make hockey exciting to the masses. The best woman’s hockey player ever to live in her prime couldn’t cut it in effectively a beer league in Europe. No one is paying to watch that.

I’m not trying to #### on women’s hockey and I’m all for equal opportunity at the amateur level, but this is professional sports and not a charity.

To beat a dead horse and how much funding WNBA gets from teams I would still consider it successful and is a model NHL should go for. It isn't just about equal opportunity for women to have a professional sports team. It is about allowing the future generations of girls to dream and aspire to be better athletes.

Can this happen through amateur/semi pro means absolutely but it isn't going to. Canadian media has started taking small steps in broadcasting more female sports but it isn't close to enough. I can watch all the female NCAA sports my heart desires on ESPN in the states however we have nothing here. With 6/7 TSN/Sportsnet channels why can't we get more female content?

Success of WNBA
WNBA - 26 years running
Average Salary- 77k
144 professional players over 12 teams
Attendance continues to grow
NBA players promote and talk about their favorite players.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There is absolutely no chance in hell that the NHL and NHLPA will take a ~20% cut in revenue to accommodate a women's pro league. Right now, we're talking about flushing a few million dollars a year to support this welfare league. You're talking about lighting a billion dollars on fire.

Yep. Lol I don't know who would be watching this league or buying advertising during these games either. Economics will just never work.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There is absolutely no chance in hell that the NHL and NHLPA will take a ~20% cut in revenue to accommodate a women's pro league. Right now, we're talking about flushing a few million dollars a year to support this welfare league. You're talking about lighting a billion dollars on fire.

Okay. Heres the thing.

Hockey barely works as it is. Operational and travel costs in hockey are astronomical and in conjunction with the CBA only a few teams actually generate a ROI that most investors would be interested in.

Its not much of a secret, but the primary value in the NHL is the accumulation of the value of franchises, which is why you see the franchising fees going through the roof.

An NHL team selling out 18K seat buildings are barely turning a profit.

As much as I hate to say it, I just dont see how the women's game is supposed to make a go of it.

I would wager that investment analysts would say that the Hockey market is tapped. There is this new thing of getting women into the game....but there just isnt sufficient interest to make it economically viable.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

To beat a dead horse and how much funding WNBA gets from teams I would still consider it successful and is a model NHL should go for. It isn't just about equal opportunity for women to have a professional sports team. It is about allowing the future generations of girls to dream and aspire to be better athletes.

Can this happen through amateur/semi pro means absolutely but it isn't going to. Canadian media has started taking small steps in broadcasting more female sports but it isn't close to enough. I can watch all the female NCAA sports my heart desires on ESPN in the states however we have nothing here. With 6/7 TSN/Sportsnet channels why can't we get more female content?

Success of WNBA
WNBA - 26 years running
Average Salary- 77k
144 professional players over 12 teams
Attendance continues to grow
NBA players promote and talk about their favorite players.

You look at the grass roots appeal of Woman's basketball in the US and you can make an argument for it.


Woman's hockey even in Canada doesn't have that, and it certainly doesn't in the US.


The attendance shows that, basically there are some attendance figures that show that its pretty much family and friends going to the games and no one else.


Canada is a pretty tapped hockey market when you consider pro/amateur/college all drawing from a limited bucket of money. And a limited bucket of sponsorship money.


I doubt that the NHL is going to throw money at something that really doesn't have a model of success or growth at the pro level.


They might sponsor it, buy some advertising, but I doubt there's an appetite to be a partner in it. Or run another league, especially if there's another players union involved. I can see that conversation to be honest


NHL - "Ok we're willing to put some funds into starting up or running a woman's pro hockey league to show all girls that they have something to play for"


WHPA - "We have some demands before we start popping the champagne"


NHL - "Yeah we're out"

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

To beat a dead horse and how much funding WNBA gets from teams I would still consider it successful and is a model NHL should go for. It isn't just about equal opportunity for women to have a professional sports team. It is about allowing the future generations of girls to dream and aspire to be better athletes.

Can this happen through amateur/semi pro means absolutely but it isn't going to. Canadian media has started taking small steps in broadcasting more female sports but it isn't close to enough. I can watch all the female NCAA sports my heart desires on ESPN in the states however we have nothing here. With 6/7 TSN/Sportsnet channels why can't we get more female content?

Success of WNBA
WNBA - 26 years running
Average Salary- 77k
144 professional players over 12 teams
Attendance continues to grow
NBA players promote and talk about their favorite players.

The WNBA costs the NBA $10 million/year on average. How is that a successful business model and why should the NHL go for it? Because they can?

The WNBA averaged 7,700 fans per game. The CWHL averaged 177. That’s 2% of what the WNBA averaged. They bleed money with way more attendance.

The bottom line is that nobody wants to watch women’s professional hockey. That’s unfortunate for the women that play but right now it’s not a viable career choice for them. This isn’t about equality, it’s about supply and demand and right now the demand is nearly 0.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CanadaMatt

I don’t disagree that it’s a non-starter. Which is why a woman’s NHL league is also a non-starter.

...and here we are almost in June, and the Stanley cup final hasnt even started yet. Yawn

Yeah and then I have almost 4 months of absolute boredom with no hockey to watch.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

The bottom line is that nobody wants to watch women’s professional hockey.

I think the bottom line is there is only so much free time people can use for professional sports and entertainment. And there are a lot of professional sports.

Which ultimately leads to your bottom line, because people are going to watch the best of the sport you are interested in. Not 2-3 different leagues. The list of people who are able to do that is minute.

[fundmark19]

Is there even a professional sports league that doesn’t have a players union? You can’t compare WNBA and the female pro hockey leagues. The marketing power alone in WNBA should draw bodies. Look at the success NLL teams owned as part of NHL organizations have helped solidify attendance.

I watched a whole day of NCAA women’s golf today and it was really exciting. Why can this get television time yet we can’t get anything women related on tv. How can I get my daughters excited about becoming athletes if we can watch 2 weeks of hockey every 4 years and the odd tournament?

If the WNBA bleeds 10 million a year why not negotiate what you’re going to lose in mandatory commitments in the next national tv deal. Then you have a tv deal in place and boom you can source advertisers.

[fundmark19]

Is there even a professional sports league that doesn’t have a players union? You can’t compare WNBA and the female pro hockey leagues. The marketing power alone in WNBA should draw bodies. Look at the success NLL teams owned as part of NHL organizations have helped solidify attendance.

I watched a whole day of NCAA women’s golf today and it was really exciting. Why can this get television time yet we can’t get anything women related on tv. How can I get my daughters excited about becoming athletes if we can watch 2 weeks of hockey every 4 years and the odd tournament?

If the WNBA bleeds 10 million a year why not negotiate what you’re going to lose in mandatory commitments in the next national tv deal. Then you have a tv deal in place and boom you can source advertisers.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by fundmark19

Is there even a professional sports league that doesn’t have a players union? You can’t compare WNBA and the female pro hockey leagues. The marketing power alone in WNBA should draw bodies. Look at the success NLL teams owned as part of NHL organizations have helped solidify attendance.

I watched a whole day of NCAA women’s golf today and it was really exciting. Why can this get television time yet we can’t get anything women related on tv. How can I get my daughters excited about becoming athletes if we can watch 2 weeks of hockey every 4 years and the odd tournament?

If the WNBA bleeds 10 million a year why not negotiate what you’re going to lose in mandatory commitments in the next national tv deal. Then you have a tv deal in place and boom you can source advertisers.

Well first of all, I don’t have an issue with them unionizing, I have an issue with expecting the NHL to have to make a poor investment in an inferior product in the name of equality. If they’re going to play professionally they should have a union.

Same issue with a TV deal, little to no interest. Women’s hockey has been on TV before. I’d imagine if the numbers supported it the TV networks would have already offered them some sort of deal. The TV networks also don’t owe them the airtime if there’s something else that makes them more money.

I agree with you that women’s sports can be exciting, I enjoy watching them at the Olympics, but I don’t have the time or desire to dedicate my time following their professional leagues when the NHL is a better product.

Also, why can’t your daughters watch the NHL and get excited that way? You don’t have to see the potential to make millions of dollars to get excited about playing a sport. My sister played a very high level of hockey her whole life and I don’t think she’s ever once been interested in watching women’s hockey, but she’s a die-hard Flames fan. The vast majority of her friends are NHL fans. There’s nothing wrong with idolizing NHL players if you’re a girl looking to get into the sport.

[fundmark19]

That’s not how kids are wired. Exact quote from my daughter this week who is 5 “dad why do you only watch guys baseball?” My response “I watch girls as well. Would you like me to turn on a girls game?” One click we are watching ncaa softball tournament. Now she is fired up about going to baseball 2 nights a week because she thinks she can play by Disney World at UCF

I don’t want to answer the question “why can’t I play in the nhl?” “Well hunny it all comes down to economics and a group of billionaires didn’t want to take a chance at growing their sport.” Why are we ok with still not trying to create equality for future generations. There is a lot wrong with NCAA and even with Title IX but at least they are doing something to create equality in sport at their highest level. It wouldn’t be that hard for the NHL to do something similar.

Nba stepped up to do it and it’s time for the NHL

[Deegee]

This isn't about growing the game, though. That's a terrible arguement.

Professional sports is about making money.