Feds to pay Aboriginals $500 - $700 million for Non Aboriginal Foster homes

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

I would rescind all land treaties and eliminate the Department of Aboriginal Affairs. Having these agreements and agencies in place keeps treating them as 2nd class citizens or equals. Until any party stops relying on the state to solve their problems, they will never be treated equal. Let's make the transition easy - financially assist every aboriginal family and individual to amalgamate into Canadian society.

So steal their property and forcibly displace them is your solution? Great. Look how well that's working in other countries that have done it.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by rubecube

There are also groups of young, high-achieving aboriginals who do this kind of work on their own but they get very little if anything in the way of support and resources from the government. I'd like to see more investment in those types of programs that are initiated by aboriginals.

gonna be a dick but sources???
after living in Inuvik for three years the only thing I see that is lacking is tru leadership from within

[spuzzum]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I guess I don't see the disconnect here. You are saying we should clean up our own backyard, but that it won't happen. But isn't this, and other settlements and reconciliation an attempt to right past wrongs?

This is patch work, not a solution or reconciliation. There are federal and provincial pending lawsuits on a huge variety of topics / subjects. I think the only true way to move forward is one final "agreement" / "deal" to help our back yard amalgamate into Canadian society - whatever the historical or current issue is.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

gonna be a dick but sources???
after living in Inuvik for three years the only thing I see that is lacking is tru leadership from within

It's mostly people I know personally in the LM so I don't really want to give out their info on a public message board without their consent. Sorry.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

This is patch work, not a solution or reconciliation. There are federal and provincial pending lawsuits on a huge variety of topics / subjects. I think the only true way to move forward is one final "agreement" / "deal" to help our back yard amalgamate into Canadian society - whatever the historical or current issue is.

They are part of society. Saying aboriginal people need to integrate into Canadian society is the same seemingly logical but proven to be extremely misguided thinking that resulted in the atrocities of the Residential School System and the abduction of children.

The fact is, aboriginal people do not need to integrate into Canadian society. Canadian society needs to incorporate their culture and way of life into what we believe Canadian society to be.

Someone living on a reserve is no less an equal and exemplary member of our society than someone living in Bankview. This thinking is what needs to change, not aboriginal culture.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This I can agree with but I still think the government needs to respect land claims. We probably need to establish more methods and resources for indigenous peoples to sustain their cultural ties in modern, urban settings. I'm just not entirely sure what that looks like.

Not sure if it already exists but maybe consider funding language classes/teachers?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Not sure if it already exists but maybe consider funding language classes/teachers?

This give a good idea of what some Indigenous communities believe truth and reconciliation might look like. Points 13-17 deal with language specifically.

http://www.trc.ca/websites/trcinstit...n_English2.pdf

[redforever]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

This give a good idea of what some Indigenous communities believe truth and reconciliation might look like. Points 13-17 deal with language specifically.

http://www.trc.ca/websites/trcinstit...n_English2.pdf

And if anyone wants to read personal stories submitted by those who were sent to residential schools, this is the link.

http://nctr.ca/assets/reports/Final%...nglish_Web.pdf

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

They are part of society. Saying aboriginal people need to integrate into Canadian society is the same seemingly logical but proven to be extremely misguided thinking that resulted in the atrocities of the Residential School System and the abduction of children.

The fact is, aboriginal people do not need to integrate into Canadian society. Canadian society needs to incorporate their culture and way of life into what we believe Canadian society to be.

Someone living on a reserve is no less an equal and exemplary member of our society than someone living in Bankview. This thinking is what needs to change, not aboriginal culture.

How does it change? If aboriginals as a group can't compete in the urban world then they are not integrating. If you or I cannot integrate and compete are there services out there for us? If so, are those same services available to aboriginals?

Now on the other hand you are saying we should integrate to them. Ok. If we look as our current workplace/office, where we are sitting right now. In what ways can it change to incorporate their culture to help them?

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by redforever

You can read thousands of first hand experiences if you download the Truth and Reconciliation Committee's final report. It is not easy to read what some experienced.

The Mohawk Institute at Brantford, Ontario is a residential school that has been documented as truly horrific. This is what Russ Moses, a resident of the school for 5 years, wrote about the Mohawk Institute.

This isn’t about what people did in the 19th century. This is about what Canada continued to do until only two decades ago. It is not what his forefathers did. It is about what many people who lived through the period did not do…speak up to end the genocide of aboriginal culture. We all share a responsibility to make amends and create a culture which understands the value of aboriginal people, rather than shoving our history under the carpet so that we don’t feel guilty. Most countries and civilizations have a blot in their history. This is Canada’s blot.

http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.c.../RussMoses.pdf

And you can look at the recommendations from the TRC as well, I think there were 90+ such recommendations. While I don't necessarily support all of them, I think that most of them have merit.

As for some others who simply say, "get over it already", well, that is more easily said than done. Yes, Canada has apologized. Yes, Canada has offered financial compensation. And yes, we can't live in the past forever. But if we can do more, we should do more. Some of the suggestions from the report certainly merit some consideration.

I have no problem paying for name changes for those who feel it would help heal the past. I have no doubt in my mind that what went on in residential schools was cultural genocide. If they feel they have been robbed of their name which is a part of their culture, then I have no problem assisting them in getting their name back. I can't imagine that it would take a huge bureaucracy to assist in name changes.

I have no problem with us teaching about the history of residential schools. We teach about concentration camps, Rwanda, and so on. Surely our own history merits mention as well. The curriculum could be worked out cooperatively between natives and education boards.

I have no problem with appropriate parenting programs being set up. After all, if you lived most of your formative years in a residential school environment, how do you learn how families function?

I have no problem in demanding apologies from both the Catholic and Anglican churches. I don't care how much good some in these churches might have done. It will never negate the horrors of what some had to experience.

And what I would like to see done, that has not been recommended, is to have the abusers named. I don't care if they are dead or alive. This is not just a black mark on the gov't of the day. It is a huge black mark on each and everyone who abused a child in residential schools in Canada and they should be named and brought to justice.

Any normal human being with any emotions at all would and should have known that what went on in residential schools in Canada was wrong. Shame on them for being accomplices or not speaking up.

I also think we can do a much better job educating our native youth. Maclean's magazine had an excellent article documenting the huge improvement in two native schools in Ontario. Actually, these two schools have benefited from the Paul Martin Aboriginal Education Initiative. I think the approach in these two schools would have merit all across Canada as well.

http://www.macleans.ca/education/the...cores-soaring/

That is a great response. Unfortunately, it was to a question I didn't ask.

This settlement isn't about residential schools.

[redforever]

After the findings of the TRC came out, Macleans ran a series of stories and events from the past. I found them to be very good reads.

Indigenous children for sale: The money behind the Sixties Scoop

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...dren-1.3781622

The other residential school runaways

http://www.macleans.ca/news/the-othe...hool-runaways/

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics...vors-1.4342462

$35 - $50k per person for being placed in non-aboriginal homes during the 60s causing a loss of their identity and culture.

I'm really tired of settlements, land claims, agreements from the 1800s. We're all Canadians, plain and simple. No further special treatment for X group over Y group.

We're talking about kids who were taken from their parents against their will in order to try to dissociate from their families and culture. Abuse of every variety has been documented in these fostering arrangements. It doesn't sound like special treatment to me.

Originally Posted by spuzzum

I could go on and on about this settlement, but isn't this like putting a Dutch kid into a German home or a Catholic into an atheist home?

Except you can't talk to your parents who are still alive, sacred objects of your culture are forbidden, and you get punished for speaking your native language. So, no, not like the example you provided at all.

Originally Posted by spuzzum

Some kids have a very rough go and it's great our society has a social system in place. In 3rd world countries, we'd be homeless. This just grinds my gears more than the other threads.

You're clueless if you think that forced fostering of native children is part and parcel of a normal, functioning social support system.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

How does it change? If aboriginals as a group can't compete in the urban world then they are not integrating. If you or I cannot integrate and compete are there services out there for us? If so, are those same services available to aboriginals?

Now on the other hand you are saying we should integrate to them. Ok. If we look as our current workplace/office, where we are sitting right now. In what ways can it change to incorporate their culture to help them?

I’m not sure what you’re asking, can you rephrase your question(s)? This has little to do with corporate culture or competitiveness in the urban world, because if you think it does then you’re missing the point entirely. The point is that our culture as a whole should be representative and respectful of the diverse traditions and ways of life we have. It’s not “how do we make Canadian corporate culture better for them,” it’s “stop telling them to integrate into “our” society and accept that their traditions and way of life is already part of it.”

They aren’t outsiders. They aren’t the other. They’re Canadians. They’re part of society already. They don’t need to change their culture to fit ours, we need to accept their culture as part of ours (which means quit saying they need to join society).

I think you’re just looking at this from a totally different angle and I’m not sure what angle that is, so sorry if this doesn’t really give you an answer.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The vast majority of Native children went to residential schools voluntarily. The adoptions were voluntary too. The government obviously didn't realize the Catholic Church was riddled with abuse. Remember, at the same time this was happening most of the children in Quebec, Ireland, etc. were being taught by Catholic priests and nuns. Authorities were treating Native kids the same way poor, Catholic kids in white countries were treated.

But I'll ask the question again: What would you have done?

This is about as close as one can get to outright saying the residential schools weren't a problem.

And no, the adoptions weren't voluntary <removed>.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

I would rescind all land treaties and eliminate the Department of Aboriginal Affairs. Having these agreements and agencies in place keeps treating them as 2nd class citizens or equals. Until any party stops relying on the state to solve their problems, they will never be treated equal. Let's make the transition easy - financially assist every aboriginal family and individual to amalgamate into Canadian society.

So, your stance is "Enough already; I'm tired of this. Let's force integration of aboriginals into mainstream society and be done with this."

Empathy Workshop: Imagine you are them.

[blankall]

Very impressed CP to see the change in attitudes here.

What some posters are missing here is the cascading effect residential schools and forced foster homes have through generations. Entire generations of people were prevented from becoming leaders or pursuing their own destiny. Instead, they became victims of abuse. This abuse then gets passed down to the next generation, as these people now lack family ties, proper support structures, education, labour skills, etc..

Over the last couple of decades things are improving, but no one can expect the healing from this to be overnight. Posters quoted how much money the government has already given indigenous groups need to take a step back and put those relatively small funds in the the larger context. Even from a purely economic sense, every piece of land you've ever stepped on in Canada was taken from indigenous people. How much is that worth vs. the meager amounts of reconciliation payments made recently?

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by icecube

...
And no, the adoptions weren't voluntary you moron.

CliffFletcher is one the most well-spoken, well-reasoned and well-mannered posters here. You, on the other hand, appear to be... the exact opposite.

I can only imagine the quality of forum threads when one feels totally comfortable throwing personal insults.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

CliffFletcher is one the most well-spoken, well-reasoned and well-mannered posters here. You, on the other hand, appear to be... the exact opposite.

I can only imagine the quality of forum threads when one feels totally comfortable throwing personal insults.

Cliff might be well-spoken and well-mannered, but he’s hardly always well-reasoned or well-informed. Icecube has also demonstrated all of those things.

Instead of drawing attention to reactions that you think are inappropriate, feel free to join the conversation in a meaningful way.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

...feel free to join the conversation in a meaningful way.

There is no way these discussions can be had in a meaningful way here anymore. There is no respect for opposing opinions and point of views. There is no genuine interest in debating opposing reasoning. Most of the time the argument leads to attacking and labeling the poster. Why bother trying?

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

CliffFletcher is one the most well-spoken, well-reasoned and well-mannered posters here. You, on the other hand, appear to be... the exact opposite.

I can only imagine the quality of forum threads when one feels totally comfortable throwing personal insults.

Is there another CliffFletcher that posts here?