Hey Cap is there any precedent for this kind of rust out in a military? Maybe the fall of the USSR? This looks like the government is simply abandoning the forces and getting out of the business of national defence. It’s shocking.
Errrr, this is all systems normal. It has always been like this, the forces have always been ignored and/or abused.
Honestly, I don't see anything different from how it always has been.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
The Department of National Defence needs an extra $54 million just so it can examine the bids from companies hoping to build it a new fleet of warships — an indication of the growing expense of a program that has more than tripled in cost over the years.
The funds are not earmarked for anything to do with the actual construction of the ships, but instead to fund DND’s evaluation of the the bids this year — and they would be in addition to the $39 million the department has already received to review the bids, according to defence sources.
The cost of the new Canadian Surface Combatants, which will replace the existing Halifax-class frigates, has steadily been climbing. The 15 ships were originally estimated to cost $15 billion. That increased to $24 billion before DND came out with a new estimate of around $40 billion. That too has since changed, and the project is now estimated to cost between $55 billion and $60 billion — and even then, the federal government acknowledges it doesn’t know what the program’s final cost will be to taxpayers. Parliamentary budget officer Jean-Denis Fréchette estimated last year the CSC program would cost $61.82 billion, and warned that every year the awarding of the contract is delayed beyond 2018, taxpayers will spend an extra $3 billion because of inflation.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
As bad as the Conservatives struggled with this file, The Liberals have completely bungled it now.
But this is again the argument that we make things hyper difficult because we need to uniquely Canadianize our equipment.
It adds way to much cost, time, material expense and difficulty to anything we use.
Right now an Arleigh Burke guided missile destroyer with an Aegis combat system costs under $2 billion dollars. That means that 15 of them would probably cost about $27 billion dollars.
Or go the the UK and see if you can buy the designs for the type 45 guided missile destroyer, they cost about 1.5 billion dollars each and work surprisingly well in cold water.
Instead of f'ing around with renting replenishment ships that can't do combat resupplies, go to the Americans and put in an order of 2 of their fast replinishment ships.
I know its cool to say, our equipment is special to Canada, but at this point what the hell is the point of that.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
The National Interest article appeared today, but the DOTE report is end-2016. Regardless, it is my impression that many of the issues highlighted in the report have not been addressed.
The Gold-plated Turd could come with a hefty modernization plan:
That report was from 2016, they're writing the article off of old data.
As I read through this they're going off of a lot of 2016 data, I'm not going to comment where they are on the fixes, however a lot of these issues wee known in 2016 and a lot have been corrected.
As far as the modernization to Block 4, Every weapons platform has the same singular thing, there's a modernization nearly immediately after deployment. When you consider what the F-36 is in terms of computerization and how advanced it is, I would expect that because its designed around capability and mission expansion that its going to be seeing more rapid modernization programs then any other plane in history.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
It's an annual report for 2016, so written in 2017. The executive summary highlights several deficiencies with projected solutions not until mid-2018. IOT&E scheduled for Aug 2017 didn't happen and the author projects 2020, perhaps 2019 best case.
What deficiencies has Locheed corrected? Any?
If so, they corrected them late, past the original due date. If not, we shall see if they can hit their new targets of mid-2018, 2019 or 2020. But I don't think they (Locheed) have corrected them and the article seems to imply that they don't really have a clue how to fix them.
Of course the F-35 has modernization projects - gotta keep the money flowing. They are all designed that way and they will keep modernizing. There is no end state...until the wings fall off. My intent was to point out the costs, not that there is a Block 4 modernization project.
My point is it's a gold-plated turd sucking a lot of money and I really think it will end up being a POS. In fact, they should use it as a lessons-learned and just start the sixth generation project.
Yeah, a lot of planes are delivered, but this is for the media and optics. The reality is they are hanger queens once they are delivered.
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"If you do not know what you are doing, neither does your enemy."
- - Joe Tzu
Foreign minister says Canada should prepare for Russian attempts to destabilize its democracy
So I'm wondering what shenanigan's the russian's will get up to? Is it safe to speculate on what kind of scenario would be required to get the current government to abandon it's current commitments?
I mean Canada is headed down the road to Sweden/Germany conditions at the moment, but that may be too far off track for Canadian Military News.
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Tacitus: Rara temporum felicitate, ubi sentire quae velis, et quae sentias dicere licet.
The charge relates to the alleged leak of the Liberal government’s intention to delay a contract to provide the Royal Canadian Navy with an interim supply ship. That delay became public, forcing the Liberal government to stick with the contract plan. But behind-the-scenes, there was anger and questions how cabinet discussions had leaked.
The Privy Council Office, the bureaucratic wing that supports the prime minister’s office, ran an initial investigation into the leak, producing a 210-page report in November 2016. The following month, the RCMP’s sensitive and international investigations section — which handles sensitive cases that pose “significant” threats to Canada's government institutions and public officials — began a probe.
Norman was abruptly relieved of duty as second-in-command of Canada’s military in January 2017 by Gen. Jonathan Vance, the chief of defence staff, who offered little explanation at the time.
The allegations involve a $700-million contract that the previous Conservative government awarded to Quebec shipyard Chantier Davie to convert a civilian ship into an interim navy supply vessel.
Following the October 2015 federal election, Halifax-based Irving Shipbuilding and Vancouver-based Seaspan wrote to the new Liberal government complaining about the deal and pitching their own plans.
Documents obtained by the RCMP and submitted to the court indicate Davie responded by pulling out all the stops to keep the Liberals from cancelling the deal, which was still being finalized.
That included plans to, in the words of one Davie official, “put pressure” on Treasury Board President Scott Brison, leaking information to the media and getting Quebec Premier Philippe Couillard on side.
“(Meeting) with Couillard today,” reads an email from Nov. 20, 2015 that the RCMP says is from Davie official Spencer Fraser to Norman.
“Message is that the yard will be closed, 1,200 lay offs before (Christmas), we will sue the Crown.”
One of Davie’s lobbyists, Brian Mersereau of Hill+Knowlton, also suggests in an email that they “sic the media or the union” on Social Development Minister Jean-Yves Duclos, the senior minister from Quebec City.
The RCMP alleges Norman tried to help Davie by providing a regular stream of updates and advice on how to pressure the Liberals into approving the deal, which included giving the company secret documents.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
An all Canadian carrier group. Makes me really happy and also kind of sad. Oh how far we've fallen
That picture was taken after the Bonaventure was re purposed as am anti-submarine platform.
Another typical Trudeau decision in which he stripped off its two squadrons of Voodoo fighters that were only 5 years old and moth ball them, and lead to the aircraft carrier being decommissioned and cut up only 13 years into its life.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Oh jeez. I'm not a military history buff in the least, but I had no idea Canada had a carrier at one point. That is simultaneously super cool, but super frustrating learning about it's history.
Oh jeez. I'm not a military history buff in the least, but I had no idea Canada had a carrier at one point. That is simultaneously super cool, but super frustrating learning about it's history.
I had no idea either. If someone asked me about an aircraft carrier in Canada I would think they were talking about the GI JOE toy.
Oh jeez. I'm not a military history buff in the least, but I had no idea Canada had a carrier at one point. That is simultaneously super cool, but super frustrating learning about it's history.
We had 3 The other two were the Magnificent and Warrior. Bonaventure was the last of them.
The Bonaventure was laid down as the HMS Powerful. How's that for a freakin name?
During WW2, there were two carriers the HMS Nabob and the Puncher. They were light carriers and were Royal Navy but they were staffed by Canadians and mostly used for escort duty.
During the Cold War there were three Canadian Carriers
We had the HMCS Warrior from 46 to 48 but there were some design flaws in terms of cold water capability. So we basically traded it to the UK for escort carriers.
We had the HMCS Magnificent, which was a Majestic Class Carrier. She served from 48 to 57, She had 2 squadrons 1 of Sea Fury Fighters, and 1 of FireFly IV Torpedeo Bombers. Canada later bought Avenger Torpedo Bombers.
In 57 the Commissioned Bonaventure to replace the Magnificent. They were both the same class of carrier, but the Bonaventure was slightly heavier and more advanced, it also was designed to launch and recover Jets. She carried two squadrons of Banshee Fighters as well as other non combat and ASW platforms. Later she was converted to be a strictly antisubmarine platform and helicopter carrer.
Canada basically had over 20 years of carrier operational experience and then we lost it.
We had a navy that could form its own task forces and protect them and we lost that too.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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The other two were the Magnificent and Warrior. Bonaventure was the last of them.