Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The people that get on their high horse during a winning streak are no better than the ones accused of panicking on a losing streak. I expect better of you than this. Thread is totally legitimate given their play in the first 2.5 months of the season.

A discussion about firing the coach half way through the season with the team a spitting distance from the playoffs was not in the least bit "legitimate." I agree with Enoch Root that there has been a lot of good discussion sparked by the presence of this thread, but it was discussion that should have taken place under another guise than suggesting the coach was in even the slightest jeopardy of losing his job.

And no, questioning the legitimacy of this thread during a winning streak is entirely different from panicky, knee-jerk reactions calling for a coaching change during losing streaks (none of which ever crept past three games all season). The difference is that there was never any chance the coach would be fired, and the reason for this is that even when the team was sputtering in December, they were still playing well in several areas, and keeping pace with other teams.

A thread which raises questions about whether the coaches are getting the most out of players is apt. One that muses about whether he should be fired under these conditions is not.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think there has been a lot of really good discussion.

I also think there there were some very legitimate beefs with how he was managing the team. And interestingly enough, he has adjusted with respect to many of them.

We're seeing more emotion.

We're seeing better player utilization.

We're seeing changes with respect to personnel on the PP

We've seen changes with the way players are being utilized on the PK

We're seeing some of the older, slower guys losing ice-time to younger guys.

We're seeing much more passion from Gulutzan.

We're seeing the defense join in the offense much more.

We're seeing better - and more physical - defensive coverage.

Coaches can have good and bad stretches, just like players can. Gulutzan was being agonizingly stubborn with his policies for the first 30-35 games. But we have seen much more flexibility, and many more adjustments from him over the past few weeks.

I pretty much agree. It is a shame this discussion did not occur under different questions.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Red

Exactly. Also, this thread started when Brouwer was on the first PP. Brodie was the lone D on the first PP. The fourth line was getting too much ice time. Janko, Mangipane were in the AHL, Bartkowski was the 6th D and Bennett was looking for his first point of the season as a C. Oh and the emotions, pretty sure even Warrener brought it up how the team lacked a soul. Then the stick incident came.

We all complained about it, he finally made the changes and now the team is winning. Go figure. Maybe we weren't so embarrassing after all. If he didn't make the changes WE WERE ASKING FOR are we still on a 7 game win streak?

I am happy that GG is coaching the way I wanted. Had he done it day one I would not have complained.

No kidding. You can argue the team turned the corner when the organization started doing things fans have been asking for a while. A winning streak is great but the real test is their play after. At HF a few Oilers are saying we are on our annual hot streak which will be followed by mediocre play. It's not a secret how this team has been over the past few seasons. This is the important stretch now for the team as they have got themselves back into a good spot but they have to sustain this play for the duration of the season as there's just so many teams bunched together the pace isn't going to slow down.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

A discussion about firing the coach half way through the season with the team a spitting distance from the playoffs was not in the least bit "legitimate." I agree with Enoch Root that there has been a lot of good discussion sparked by the presence of this thread, but it was discussion that should have taken place under another guise than suggesting the coach was in even the slightest jeopardy of losing his job.

And no, questioning the legitimacy of this thread during a winning streak is entirely different from panicky, knee-jerk reactions calling for a coaching change during losing streaks (none of which ever crept past three games all season). The difference is that there was never any chance the coach would be fired, and the reason for this is that even when the team was sputtering in December, they were still playing well in several areas, and keeping pace with other teams.

A thread which raises questions about whether the coaches are getting the most out of players is apt. One that muses about whether he should be fired under these conditions is not.

Hey man you are the one that called out 464 posters as an embarrassment. Maybe understand your opinion isn't necessarily "THE" opinion and that people are allowed to have one that differs from yours. Just awful behaviour from a mod especially.

[Flash Walken]

I think basically what you're seeing is an affirmation that the coach has been doing and saying the right things but that the General Manager wasn't giving him enough to work with.

Moving bennett to the wing by bringing up Janko, bringing up hathaway, moving freddy, keeping kulak in the lineup, jagr being out, Eddie Lack being waived in favour of Riddich, bringing up Mangiapane.

I think a significant amount of the turn around in the teams fortunes has been getting better players in the lineup.

Having Janko step into the lineup and be a better player than Bennett has been huge for the team, but bringing up Hathaway to play with him has helped almost as much. Having a third line has given GG the freedom to use Tkachuk on the pp, because he has a genuine freakin' line to put out there if Monahan/gaudreau/backlund/tkachuk are coming off PP time.

A lot of dead weight off the roster now. Kulak looks great, he's elevating his d partner right now.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Red

Exactly. Also, this thread started when Brouwer was on the first PP. Brodie was the lone D on the first PP. The fourth line was getting too much ice time. Janko, Mangipane were in the AHL, Bartkowski was the 6th D and Bennett was looking for his first point of the season as a C...

This thread was opened on 24 December, well after more than half of these supposed egregious issues were resolved.

We all complained about it, he finally made the changes and now the team is winning. Go figure. Maybe we weren't so embarrassing after all. If he didn't make the changes WE WERE ASKING FOR are we still on a 7 game win streak?

I am happy that GG is coaching the way I wanted. Had he done it day one I would not have complained.

I think a lot of what posters are seeing are correlations and not causations. In any event, as I noted in response to Enoch Root, much of the discussion has been good, but the insistent calls for a coaching change have been utterly preposterous.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Red

Exactly. Also, this thread started when Brouwer was on the first PP. Brodie was the lone D on the first PP. The fourth line was getting too much ice time. Janko, Mangipane were in the AHL, Bartkowski was the 6th D and Bennett was looking for his first point of the season as a C. Oh and the emotions, pretty sure even Warrener brought it up how the team lacked a soul. Then the stick incident came.

We all complained about it, he finally made the changes and now the team is winning. Go figure. Maybe we weren't so embarrassing after all. If he didn't make the changes WE WERE ASKING FOR are we still on a 7 game win streak?

I am happy that GG is coaching the way I wanted. Had he done it day one I would not have complained.

This post needs some serious fact checking, as does the other cringe worthy elements of this thread. Ignoring reality was pretty standard in here. Yes, some good points were made, but for the most part, it was brutal. Just like this post.

[Enoch Root]

^ yes they have - especially in the GTs, after every goal against

(re: Textcritic's post)

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

^ yes they have - especially in the GTs, after every goal against

(re: Textcritic's post)

Yeah but there's a small handful of posters that have been going on like a broken record. That said they are a small minority in a large number of posters that voted to fire him. There's always generalizations made around here no matter what side of the fence people are on. A lot of fans simply got tired of the patterns of mediocrity surrounded by a few winning streaks. Nothing has changed yet. I don't want to put a damper of things but I don't think this is the time for "I told you so" posts from anyone as the tables can turn fast.

[Enoch Root]

Agreed

[Red Ice Player]

Nope. The Flames had largely righted the ship weeks before the streak, about the time the three goals or less allowed string started. It was frustrating as hell, seeing the obvious tightening of team defence without the wins that should have resulted. When I voted in the poll I was shocked to see how much in the minority I was. The level of vitriol against Gulutzan within such a large sample size on CP does feel embarrassing. Gotta agree with Textcritic.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This thread was opened on 24 December, well after more than half of these supposed egregious issues were resolved.


I think a lot of what posters are seeing are correlations and not causations. In any event, as I noted in response to Enoch Root, much of the discussion has been good, but the insistent calls for a coaching change have been utterly preposterous.

This thread may have started in December but these thoughts go back to last year. GG earned his rep over 100 games or so, not just a short losing streak. It's sad that "negative" opinions are scrutinized like this and posters are mocked. Im not a 15 year old kid asking for people to get fired because the team lost 3 games, my issues with these coaches go back to last year and are shared with 400 people on this board alone. You would come off more level headed if you respected the opinions of majority here.

[Enoch Root]

One can vote yes without holding the most extreme and vitriolic view

[Red]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think basically what you're seeing is an affirmation that the coach has been doing and saying the right things but that the General Manager wasn't giving him enough to work with.

Moving bennett to the wing by bringing up Janko, bringing up hathaway, moving freddy, keeping kulak in the lineup, jagr being out, Eddie Lack being waived in favour of Riddich, bringing up Mangiapane.

I think a significant amount of the turn around in the teams fortunes has been getting better players in the lineup.

Having Janko step into the lineup and be a better player than Bennett has been huge for the team, but bringing up Hathaway to play with him has helped almost as much. Having a third line has given GG the freedom to use Tkachuk on the pp, because he has a genuine freakin' line to put out there if Monahan/gaudreau/backlund/tkachuk are coming off PP time.

A lot of dead weight off the roster now. Kulak looks great, he's elevating his d partner right now.

The coach chose his opening roster. He chose to send Janko down among other decisions. Not many expected Janko to get sent down after the camp he had. GG saw something different.

[Enoch Root]

Sending him down was Treliving's job, not Gulutzan's

[Red Ice Player]

[QUOTE=Enoch Root;6537202]One can vote yes without holding the most extreme and vitriolic view[/QUOTE
Actually, I wasn't posting in response to your post specifically. But I did find it pathetic that a two thirds majority would vote for an in season coaching change. I found that level of impatience to be extremely disappointing in regards to CP generally.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Sending him down was Treliving's job, not Gulutzan's

Sorry that is incorrect. The coach picks his roster. If GG wanted Janko he wouldn't get sent down.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Red

Sorry that is incorrect. The coach picks his roster. If GG wanted Janko he wouldn't get sent down.

First off, it's pretty evident from the quotes around that situation that it was in fact Treliving. It is also fairly evident that this is how it works from an historical point of view. And so I'm going to go ahead and say, "wrong again." But the fact is, fans in general have way too little information to go overboard on a decision like mid season coach firings for middle of the pack teams. It is the assumption of being correct and absolute certainty of this that was silly. There, that is a more neutral word for those who didn't like the embarrassment word. This thread has been silly. Frankly, it's been silly as ####.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Red

Sorry that is incorrect. The coach picks his roster. If GG wanted Janko he wouldn't get sent down.

What are you talking about? Seriously, man.

The job of the GM is to set the roster...period. He does so, obvioulsy, within the parameters of consultation with all coaches, management etc. the bottom line however is that all roster decisions come down to the GM"s call.

Game day rosters are on the coach...thats it.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I originally voted no but after recent events I’d like to change my vote to yes.