Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[dammage79]

Crazy conspiracy theory, Jagr retires because he only wanted to play for Gulutzan, retirement announcement tomorrow followed by a skype session.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Major Major

You haven't? It's been brought up in several game threads, pgts where people are upset that they've won, and is fairly evident when someone says that they'd fire GG even if they made the playoffs.

That doesn't mean we want the team to lose. I want them to win every game but wanting a coaching change made just makes losing easier to take than normal.

The reason I would fire him even if they made the playoffs is unless they make some noise that would be two underwhelming seasons of limping into the playoffs only to bow out right away. I don't expect them to be a cup contender yet but I expect them to be better than that. And I think or atleast I hope that Treliving feels the same.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Inferno

That doesn't mean we want the team to lose. I want them to win every game but wanting a coaching change made just makes losing easier to take than normal.

The reason I would fire him even if they made the playoffs is unless they make some noise that would be two underwhelming seasons of limping into the playoffs only to bow out right away. I don't expect them to be a cup contender yet but I expect them to be better than that. And I think or atleast I hope that Treliving feels the same.

Sorry, I meant to write finals instead of playoffs. I think wanting him fired if they got run in the first round is a reasonable position. It wouldn't be mine, but that's fine.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Sorry, I meant to write finals instead of playoffs. I think wanting him fired if they got run in the first round is a reasonable position. It wouldn't be mine, but that's fine.

Yeah, firing him for making the finals is a bit much. And it would be a huge red flag for any coaching candidates.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Crazy conspiracy theory, Jagr retires because he only wanted to play for Gulutzan, retirement announcement tomorrow followed by a skype session.

Crazy conspiracy theory.... (unrelated)....Jagr wants to go out playing in the Olympics.

[Flashpoint]

I’d like to change my vote. Again.

[Moneyhands23]

I may have been a panicked fool... Im sorry GG

[TheSutterDynasty]

So now suddenly he's not a bad coach?

It's not like he changed. The team just started winning for a variety of reasons. Maybe we shouldn't base firing a coach off of wins and losses and instead let the professionals decide if there's an issue of systems, motivation, personality etc.

[Erick Estrada]

Is it any surprise the team is playing it's best hockey after the shakeup of bringing up energetic youth to replace dead weight? The team started the season wasting roster spots on AHL quality vets like Bartkowski, Lack, Glass, F. Hamilton when younger and better players were already in the system. Sometimes I wonder about the archaic culture amongst NHL GM's and coaches and the over reliance on over the hill veteran players and reluctance to play younger players that are faster and more skilled and carry the only downside of possibly making a few more mistakes as they progress. I really hope this team is finished with the experiment of brining in cheap veteran junk to fill holes that should be filled from within.

As for the coach. I still wouldn't change my vote as a five game winning streak is nice but if it's followed by .500 hockey it wont matter. It's not the winning streaks that have been his problem it's the play of the team when they aren't on a winning streak where the team plays long stretches of .500 or below that's the issue. He needs to make the playoffs to keep his job.

[kukkudo]

For me if the Flames make it past the first round you keep him for another year. Lets make the playoffs first. Just have a feeling tons of coaching candidates are going to be available this summer.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Nothing has changed. A winning streak doesn't mask the fact that the system is still flawed, his personnel decisions are horrible, he doesn't adapt, and the PP is still a freaking joke. I'll give him credit, he finally got the team to the positive side of goal differential thanks to this winning streak. When he stops dressing Matt Stajan, then he might make me reconsider. Until then, he's still the same stubborn coach.

[Singularity]

5 wins in a row is nice, but the PP is not looking any better, DO SOMETHING!

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by New Era

Nothing has changed. A winning streak doesn't mask the fact that the system is still flawed.

You are so wrong. It is the same system that Babcock used to win the Red Wings multiple SC wins and Canada Gold medals. Yup, just a terrible system right there.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Is it any surprise the team is playing it's best hockey after the shakeup of bringing up energetic youth to replace dead weight? The team started the season wasting roster spots on AHL quality vets like Bartkowski, Lack, Glass, F. Hamilton when younger and better players were already in the system. Sometimes I wonder about the archaic culture amongst NHL GM's and coaches and the over reliance on over the hill veteran players and reluctance to play younger players that are faster and more skilled and carry the only downside of possibly making a few more mistakes as they progress. I really hope this team is finished with the experiment of brining in cheap veteran junk to fill holes that should be filled from within.

As for the coach. I still wouldn't change my vote as a five game winning streak is nice but if it's followed by .500 hockey it wont matter. It's not the winning streaks that have been his problem it's the play of the team when they aren't on a winning streak where the team plays long stretches of .500 or below that's the issue. He needs to make the playoffs to keep his job.

This has been said many times, but none of those younger players (outside of Jankowski) earned a roster spot ahead of those veterans that you are disparaging. Say what you will, but Glass had a strong camp, and then looked positively lackluster once the season began. THAT's when he was sent down, not directly after looking much more effective than the youngsters everyone loved. Jankowski was sent down only because they wanted to continue Bennett at center and there was no room for Janko at center yet. Once Bennett moved to wing, Jankowski was brought up (after 8 whole games) and hasn't looked back. Management even commented on the fact that they knew he was an NHLer, and they just had to make a roster move to get him up permanently.

And then, we have to take into consideration that some of those players needed the kick in the pants of being sent down to energize them again (Hathaway being the most notable). On top of that, you need to create a base level of competition for those prospects. By having guys like Glass and Bartkowski who are, as you say accurately, AHL level competition, those players need to prove they are better than the bare minimum of passable NHL play to earn a job. I see nothing wrong with having stop gaps until the kids are ready, and now it appears that they are ready for the most part after a little further seasoning in the AHL. I'm not sure they would be this effective if they started in the NHL and they were still working on their game or looking to regain their form.



As for Gulutzan, it's amazing what a difference a week can make, especially when the goalie starts playing really well and the top line catches fire. I give GG some credit for keeping this team from going on an extended losing streak when both of those things mentioned in the last sentence were not happening. I'll take .500 hockey when the team isn't playing anywhere near its best. What you can't afford is prolonged losing streaks. Go look at the snake thread and compare to last year. While this team has been working out the kinks, they've not lost many games back to back or had losing streaks longer than 3 games. That will always keep you in the hunt over the course of a very long season.

Now that they're playing a strong and confident game (especially defensively), they look like serious contenders in the West.

[Inferno]

Yeah, I'm not going to fall for it that easily. The team could easily go on a losing streak once this ends. My vote still stands until the season is done.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Yeah, I'm not going to fall for it that easily. The team could easily go on a losing streak once this ends. My vote still stands until the season is done.

They haven't lost more than 3 in a row all year. Even if they had their worst losing skid of the year, they'd end up 5-4 after this winning streak. That's still a decent record any way you slice it.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

They haven't lost more than 3 in a row all year. Even if they had their worst losing skid of the year, they'd end up 5-4 after this winning streak. That's still a decent record any way you slice it.

Don’t jinx anything. They hadn’t won more than 3 in a row before this either.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are so wrong. It is the same system that Babcock used to win the Red Wings multiple SC wins and Canada Gold medals. Yup, just a terrible system right there.

Except it isn't. Babcock knows how to use his personnel and never hesitated to shorten the bench to win a game. He also didn't restrict his defensemen from jumping into the rush the way the Flames do, didn't work against the flow like the Flames do in their own zone (they have improved lately), and he certainly didn't opt for the ridiculous circle back and allow the opposition to get into defensive positions before starting the rush. And he usually had primo special teams. I mean, besides those things, it is the exact same system that Babcock used with the Red Wings.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

They haven't lost more than 3 in a row all year. Even if they had their worst losing skid of the year, they'd end up 5-4 after this winning streak. That's still a decent record any way you slice it.

There's a first time for everything. I just think it's a bit premature for people who wanted him fired to all of a sudden change their minds. The team could still miss the playoffs or if they do limp in like last year and have an early exit.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Yeah, I'm not going to fall for it that easily. The team could easily go on a losing streak once this ends. My vote still stands until the season is done.

What in this season says that the team will go on a losing streak? Like CPF just said, what GG has undeniably done is to avoid extended losing streaks, especially pointless ones. The ones in mid-November through December were the longest and even there the Flames weren't playing that badly - they were losing close ones (some in which they were IMO the better team, like the Minnie game, the SJ game and the Leafs game), and they managed a point in a few of those losses as well. They were generally outshooting the opponents in that period as well, which is not the be all and end all, but, for example, in the TO loss shots were 48-29.