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Old 04-23-2018, 11:45 AM   #21
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The Suter and Parise deals long term will be horrible
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:31 PM   #22
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A better way of saying this would be to say that each player is currently 25. Not that 25 is any magic number.

Johnny himself will turn 25 in August and no one is buying him a rocker anytime soon.
I didn't say they were old, but they are not young cornerstone pieces on that roster. They are nice support pieces that could easily be moved if the new GM wants to change the make up of the team.

Seriously, what are you on about here? What is the point of this argument? Surely you aren't calling those two players untouchable, immovable core pieces of the Minnesota roster are you?

Jesus man. All I said was if the new GM wants to move out either of those two players, which could be entirely possible, that they'd be a great fit for our roster and supplementing our core. Next thing I know I'm in this dumb ass argument.
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:44 PM   #23
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The Wild have become that team who's ceiling seems to be get to the second round of the playoffs, but no further than that, and the floor is playoff team.

The question is can they add to the current group and push thru to the next level, or do they need to consider a bit of a tear down, and start over.

I think they need to give this group one more shot, and if it doesn't work, than they need to look at a retool. Similar to what the Sharks did three years ago when they brought in DeBoer.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:24 PM   #24
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It was obvious to many that the Suter and Parise deals were going to suck as time went on.

What was Fletcher's biggest failure was the inability for the Wild to do more while those 2 were in their prime.

Now the organization will have to deal with the fallout of those 2 contracts very soon.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:30 PM   #25
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For all intents and purposes, the Parise and Suter contracts only have four years remaining.

They make peanuts in the final 3. In the unlikely event that they do end up sticking around past the four, it wouldn't be impossible to move the contracts as the actual salary is just a million. Datsyuk's contract was moved for a couple spots in the draft, and with Suter/Parise the team acquiring them might get an actual player. Cap recapture though could hurt.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:45 PM   #26
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He alienated the wilds only blue chip prospect in Kaprizov, Kaprizov said they basically forgot about him until he played in the Wolrd Cup. That’s just awful prospect management and he deserves to be fired because of that. Kaprizov would have made a huge difference on the Wild.
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Old 04-23-2018, 06:48 PM   #27
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It was obvious to many that the Suter and Parise deals were going to suck as time went on.

What was Fletcher's biggest failure was the inability for the Wild to do more while those 2 were in their prime.

Now the organization will have to deal with the fallout of those 2 contracts very soon.
The Wild can eff off and spend the next decade in mediocrity. Always good enough to make the playoffs, but never good enough to advance. Just an annoying team that I always thinks will suck, but they find a way to win. About time those 2 incredibly stupid contracts come back to bite them in the ass.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:15 PM   #28
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Ryan Suter is still really good. Who knows if hes still good in 4 years. Maybe, maybe not.

Edit- holy crap. 7 more years? I guess the actual salary lowers eventually but sheesh

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Old 04-23-2018, 07:33 PM   #29
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The Wild can eff off and spend the next decade in mediocrity. Always good enough to make the playoffs, but never good enough to advance. Just an annoying team that I always thinks will suck, but they find a way to win. About time those 2 incredibly stupid contracts come back to bite them in the ass.
Holy ####. This. Thank You.

For the last 2 weeks I was finding myself rooting for the Jets. Well, not wanting the Jets to win so much as wanting the Wild eliminated. I couldn't put my finger on where this dislike of the Wild was coming from but you've summed it up perfectly for me. And even better, now I can go back to hating the Jets.
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Old 04-23-2018, 08:55 PM   #30
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Holy ####. This. Thank You.

For the last 2 weeks I was finding myself rooting for the Jets. Well, not wanting the Jets to win so much as wanting the Wild eliminated. I couldn't put my finger on where this dislike of the Wild was coming from but you've summed it up perfectly for me. And even better, now I can go back to hating the Jets.

WOW, you just took the words right outta my mouth. I can't point my fingers on why I hate the Wild that much, they are just really annoying. And because the Jets were playing them, I had to put aside my dislike for the Jets.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:17 AM   #31
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Unless I'm mistaken, Zucker (33 goals this season) and Dumba (50 point Dman) are in line for healthy raises this offseason, no?

I know Parise tries hard, but his recent production warrants about half of what he currently makes, nevermind 7 years from now!
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:49 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen View Post
For all intents and purposes, the Parise and Suter contracts only have four years remaining.

They make peanuts in the final 3. In the unlikely event that they do end up sticking around past the four, it wouldn't be impossible to move the contracts as the actual salary is just a million.
I suppose Arizona or Carolina might take those contracts on. Florida, possibly. But the cap hit remains constant until the bitter end, and that matters more than actual cash to the majority of teams.
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:48 AM   #33
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I suppose Arizona or Carolina might take those contracts on. Florida, possibly. But the cap hit remains constant until the bitter end, and that matters more than actual cash to the majority of teams.
Yeah the problem becomes how many years would a team feel comfortable absorbing that hit for that long a term. What kind of message does that send your fans? That you don't plan on ever building a competitive roster. What happens if the Coyotes actually start trending up into a good team in two years and all of a sudden have to retain some really good players due for big raises. That cap hit is going to be a major hindrance. I really hope the NHL doesn't give out another round of compliance buyouts after the next CBA. Too many teams have got away without paying the price for these long term deals.

Also complicating things is that Parise has a full NMC for the entire contract so why would he leave his home town to go to the Coyotes or Hurricanes? Those contracts just keep looking worse and worse but Fletcher was probably correct about one thing when he offered those deals and it was that he wouldn't be around to deal the fallout.

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Old 04-26-2018, 06:32 AM   #34
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This move was overdue. Fletcher did a good job taking the team up one rung on the ladder - from a maybe playoff team, to a perennial playoff team. But they stalled out from there. You look at the best teams in the league, and the Wild is no where near them. Certainly not from a high-end skill perspective. The younger end of The Core disappears in the playoffs. Duby is a good goalie on balance, but he's prone to the ill-timed softy. There is a big mental issue with this collective group. They've largely been together for several seasons now, and they still talk about not getting down on themselves when adversity strikes mid-game. Or not coming out strong, or playing down to their opponent, or any of the other explanations for poor performances that middling teams tend to use. Chuck wasn't able to address those issues, and seemed to fall into a rut where he had made enough blunders that he acted as though he felt he couldn't afford another loss on his record, so he didn't want to part with certain players that he'd drafted or found, or whatever.

This group of players quit on Mike Yeo when they decided they didn't want him to be their coach. Then they quit on John Torchetti for the same reason. Neither of those guys is Toe Blake, granted. But now they've continued their erratic play under Boudreau (also not Toe Blake, at least when it counts, but the point is, three coaches? Maybe it's not the coach.). Right before the playoffs started Russo wrote an article saying sources were telling him that Fletcher was going to get a new contract. Then Fletch effectively gets axed, and Russo has said that after that article, close confidants to the owner (which he has further specified to include at least one player), went to Leipold and said do not bring Fletcher back.

Since Suter and Parise were signed there has been a trail of bread crumbs left by the media that at least one of them (who also hails from Wisconsin, and might have been with Leipold in Nashville) enjoys a position of influence with the owner above and beyond what even other star players in the NHL enjoy. And, if I want to get really cynical, the guy who has been identified as having the inside track on the GM job, and who was in St. Paul yesterday interviewing already, also worked for Leipold in Nashville, and allegedly played a major role in the drafting of a certain defenseman whose name might rhyme with...Ryan Suter.

All of that frankly means there's a problem with the owner. It's his asylum, granted. And it's his choice whether or not to let the inmates run that asylum. But it certainly sounds like that's the choice he's making. If he's willing to give a player that much power over management decisions, then I don't really blame the player for taking it. But it does indicate to me that the Wild is going to continue to try to win every year, which means they'll likely never finish low enough in the standings to have a good shot at the kind of draft choice that brings in difference-making skill and talent. Which means this could be a perpetual cycle of mediocrity at least until Suter is no longer on the team. Which is really, really frustrating from a fan's perspective.

Long story short, this team is a mess.
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:37 AM   #35
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Leipold has gone on record as saying he believes he'll be able to get relief from the cap recapture penalty in the event that Suter or Parise retires before their contracts expire. And, looking at the Hossa skin rash model, Parise could take a medical any time, given his well-documented back issues. And the reporting on Suter's injury is that there's no guarantee he can play again period, much less to the level to which he is accustomed. So, there's your outs right there. Play for a few more years and then say the pain is too debilitating, I have to go on LTIR forever. They still get paid, but the cap hit disappears.
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:55 AM   #36
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if anyone is like me and is curious what the actual contracts are:

Parise: $7.5M cap hit until 24-25
Suter: $7.5M cap hit until 24-25

Both 33 years old right now.

Parise had 24 points in 45 games last year. Also had 1 game in the AHL?

Suter had 51 points in 78 games (not bad).
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:00 AM   #37
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if anyone is like me and is curious what the actual contracts are:

Parise: $7.5M cap hit until 24-25
Suter: $7.5M cap hit until 24-25

Both 33 years old right now.

Parise had 24 points in 45 games last year. Also had 1 game in the AHL?

Suter had 51 points in 78 games (not bad).
Parise missed the first half of the season after back surgery. AHL game was a rehab game. I think Parise had 12 goals in the month of March. So, give him a month or so to get his legs and timing back, then he actually played really well. Had a goal in each of the first three games in the Winnipeg series, too, before he got hurt.

Suter actually had a very good season. The Wild was unlikely to beat Winnipeg before he got hurt, but it had to have fallen to a low-single-digit probability once he got hurt. And basically nil once Parise also went down.

These contracts are brutal, no doubt. But see what I said above about Leipold's belief that he'll be able to get relief from the cap recapture penalties, etc.
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:02 AM   #38
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I'd be shocked to see a team eat a big cap recapture penalty. The standard has been set for this. These players will end their contract on LTIR
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:37 AM   #39
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There will be another round of compliance buy outs after the next lock out methinks.

That'll pretty much squash most of the remaining long term front loaded retirement contracts that were handed out prior to the 8 year max contract rule was brought in.

That way players won't have to go on LTIR because of "rashes" anymore.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:59 PM   #40
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How big a positive difference would Tuch and Haula have made short term and long term?
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