[News] Ken Holland is the new GM and POHO of the Edmonton Oilers

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What an absurd take...lol.

IMO it's 50/50. The trust fund stuff is stupid. Treliving was a rich kid too, it doesn't mean he's stupid or incompetent. He may have a point about Holland not building his own team I guess, though two cups is hard to argue. But the way the team is now, that part is pretty on point.

[cracher]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I've never heard anyone from Okotoks, Airdrie or Cochrane say they're from Calgary. Most are really pointed about stating they're from those towns. Usually to out of towners they'll state it as "I'm from Cochrane, just outside Calgary", and in the Calgary area they just say the name of the town/city.

Same way outer Detroit people likely say "I'm from Royal Oak, just outside Detroit" to out of towners.

It's really wierd in those parts. For all the years I lived in the D, the only groups that don't claim to be from the D are "downriver", Novi, Waterford. Everyone else claims D. I lived in West Bloomfield, probably 9 miles north of the Detroit municipality. Even when conversing with locals, I wouldn't ever mention that... more likely to say Orchard and 16 mile. To everyone else here in YYC, it's always the D. And I own a dozen t-shirts to prove it.

[Roof-Daddy]

Holland has F all to lose here.

He gets $25 million, and if he can't fix that dumpster fire then he's just another GM in a long line of GMs who couldn't fix it.

If by some miracle he does fix it, well then he becomes legendary as the guy who turned around the worst run franchise in all of professional sports.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

IMO it's 50/50. The trust fund stuff is stupid. Treliving was a rich kid too, it doesn't mean he's stupid or incompetent. He may have a point about Holland not building his own team I guess, though two cups is hard to argue. But the way the team is now, that part is pretty on point.

He's not saying that Holland is actually a trust fund baby. He's comparing taking over the Red Wings in 1997 to being the hockey equivalent of a trust fund baby.

[カナダ人です]

No GM in the history of the NHL has ever won a Cup... it was always because of the "guy before him"

[Samuelsson]

To be honest, with some franchises it really does appear like any old Tom, Dick or Harry can roll into the GM seat and make it better. The Oilers is one of those. I'm about 95% positive I could go in there and make them a playoff team within about 2 years, and all my superior sports knowledge lies with football (soccer) in England.

And Holland gets paid $25m to boot? Mental. Give me $5m and I'd achieve the same outcome.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

It doesn't make sense to me to claim that Holland basically coasted to success on the Wings.

They obviously had a very strong organization in place, particularly the scouts (one of whom was Ken Holland).

But he drafted and oversaw the development of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hudler, Filppula, Franzen, and Kronwall. He signed Dan Cleary as a training camp invite, and signed Rafalski as a UFA.

He didn't coast from 1997 to 2008. He won the Stanley Cup twice, then rebuilt the entire roster around Lidstrom and then won the cup again. The only skaters still on the team were Lidstrom, and some grinders like McCarty and Draper.

He's obviously not perfect, and has signed some very bad contracts ("cough * JOHAN FRANZEN *cough*). But he's a good GM, can keep the lights on, and is not going to trade Connor McDavid for Alex Goligoski, which puts him light years ahead of Peter "one for one" Chiarelli.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What an absurd take...lol.

Actually it's not. I've read a few articles that state similar in that he was more a front man for an organization that where the culture and scouting was already in place. They had a jump on the rest of the league in European scouting, had some HOF foundation players in place, and it was just a matter of being able to outspend most other teams. Has anyone noticed it's been a long time since the Wings unearthed all those late round gems from Europe and that's because the rest of the league caught up and the playing field is now even. Since the playing field became level where they can't outspend other teams and their scouts aren't alone in the far reaches of Europe they really haven't had a lot of success and it's not even like they are turning the corner or anything as they are just mired in mediocrity.

All of that said I feel in incompetent boob could manage to bring that all down so there's no doubt he's competent in that he let the scouts do their thing and made some good decisions when it came to coaches, etc. I think the rap is that he's more of a cog in the machine rather than the architect or mastermind behind their legacy. The only reason he hadn't been fired by the Wings is because they had been patiently waiting for Yzerman to take over. Yzerman did learn the Wings way under Holland's tutelage but he actually implemented it all on his own from the ground up in the Lightning organization and got the results in a salary cap era that Holland has never been able to do. Will it surprise anyone if the Wings are a contender in a few years while the Oilers still can't get out of their own way?

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

It doesn't make sense to me to claim that Holland basically coasted to success on the Wings.

They obviously had a very strong organization in place, particularly the scouts (one of whom was Ken Holland).

But he drafted and oversaw the development of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hudler, Filppula, Franzen, and Kronwall. He signed Dan Cleary as a training camp invite, and signed Rafalski as a UFA.

He didn't coast from 1997 to 2008. He won the Stanley Cup twice, then rebuilt the entire roster around Lidstrom and then won the cup again.

He's obviously not perfect, and has signed some very bad contracts ("cough * JOHAN FRANZEN *cough*). But he's a good GM, can keep the lights on, and is not going to trade Connor McDavid for Alex Goligoski, which puts him light years ahead of Peter "one for one" Chiarelli.

Agree with all this. It's not likely we'll see any hilarious Chiarelli-esque trades as Ken Holland is not a stupid man. Looking at the trade history, he seems to have made mostly level-headed, fairly minor trades, a few summer trades, trading for Hasek for example, and some deadline deals before playoff runs. It will be very interesting to see how he handles the complete overhaul that the Oilers require, as he did not do well during the Wings current rebuild.

This is not a Jim Rutherford situation where an experienced GM comes in on the back end of his career to make some tweaks, but rather a situation where he will be tasked of bringing success immediately and put an entire franchise back on it's feet while the people who tore it down is looking over his shoulder every step of the way. Imagine the pressure put on his shoulders once the Oilers go on a losing streak in november. It has all the potential of becoming quite amazing.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

IMO it's 50/50. The trust fund stuff is stupid. Treliving was a rich kid too, it doesn't mean he's stupid or incompetent. He may have a point about Holland not building his own team I guess, though two cups is hard to argue. But the way the team is now, that part is pretty on point.

Lol.... he wasn't talking about his daddy... but the team he inherited, with the cupboards full and already built. Like if Brad was to start running a business, let's say Boston Pizza, it's already built - but Brad's father did nothing to help "buy" Brad's success with the Coyotes or the Calgary Flames, Brad did that all by himself.

[Mr.Coffee]

It doesn’t matter what Edmonton does until they get rid of Lowe and the rat pack.

The fact they haven’t figured this out for so many years is the epitome of no good and is highly entertaining. Holland won’t be able to do anything different than anyone else because Edmonton has an organizational structure and people in place (Lowe) that prevent winning.

It’s kind of amazing they haven’t figured it out yet actually.

[Red Slinger]

I think Holland is likely an improvement on Chiarelli but the Edmonton market makes good men do very bad things.

While Detroit may be "Hockeytown" it still doesn't carry the pressure of a Canadian market, especially one that is as fixated on it's hockey team as Edmonton. The identity of Edmonton is closely linked with that of the Oilers. There just isn't that much else going on.

Holland seems to be generally patient as a GM. However, when the pressure was on to continue the run of playoff appearances he made some impatient moves that were not good for long term success. How will he handle the pressure of having McDavid around for a few more years? They are in a win-now situation because of McDavid but they are in a rebuilding mode because of many bad contracts.

Lastly, the OBC is still around and they still have the ear of (Casting Couch) Katz. They are the torchbearers for the 21st century Oiler Way. This will be their 5th GM since 2008 (when Lowe failed upward) but that list includes the interim GM Gretzky. Chiarelli was the only GM that actually got them into the playoffs.

Holland seems like a decent man but I'm not sure if he knows what he's gotten himself into. Or perhaps he does and he's got 25 million reasons not to GAF.

BTW- has any team in the NHL ever had so many media leaks as the Oilers? I honestly feel bad for Kretzky. The entire time they were stringing him along and he had to read about it in the Oilers sponsored media. What a terrible organization.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Lol.... he wasn't talking about his daddy... but the team he inherited, with the cupboards full and already built. Like if Brad was to start running a business, let's say Boston Pizza, it's already built - but Brad's father did nothing to help "buy" Brad's success with the Coyotes or the Calgary Flames, Brad did that all by himself.

Yeah, I see that now.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It doesn’t matter what Edmonton does until they get rid of Lowe and the rat pack.

The fact they haven’t figured this out for so many years is the epitome of no good and is highly entertaining. Holland won’t be able to do anything different than anyone else because Edmonton has an organizational structure and people in place (Lowe) that prevent winning.

It’s kind of amazing they haven’t figured it out yet actually.

I thin everyone except Katz knows this.

[Fuzz]

Is he actually getting $25 million a year? That seems absurd.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Is he actually getting $25 million a year? That seems absurd.

It has been reported the Oilers are paying him $5 x 5 years. And because hockey executives still get paid even after clubs fire/relieve them of duties, it means Holland guarantees he will get $25 million regardless of what happens with the Oilers.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Actually it's not. I've read a few articles that state similar in that he was more a front man for an organization that where the culture and scouting was already in place. They had a jump on the rest of the league in European scouting, had some HOF foundation players in place, and it was just a matter of being able to outspend most other teams. Has anyone noticed it's been a long time since the Wings unearthed all those late round gems from Europe and that's because the rest of the league caught up and the playing field is now even. Since the playing field became level where they can't outspend other teams and their scouts aren't alone in the far reaches of Europe they really haven't had a lot of success and it's not even like they are turning the corner or anything as they are just mired in mediocrity.

All of that said I feel in incompetent boob could manage to bring that all down so there's no doubt he's competent in that he let the scouts do their thing and made some good decisions when it came to coaches, etc. I think the rap is that he's more of a cog in the machine rather than the architect or mastermind behind their legacy. The only reason he hadn't been fired by the Wings is because they had been patiently waiting for Yzerman to take over. Yzerman did learn the Wings way under Holland's tutelage but he actually implemented it all on his own from the ground up in the Lightning organization and got the results in a salary cap era that Holland has never been able to do. Will it surprise anyone if the Wings are a contender in a few years while the Oilers still can't get out of their own way?

Holland took over as GM in 97...previous to that he was assistant GM for 3 years....and prior to that he was their Director of Scouting for 7 years after being a scout himself for a few years.

So where do you think all this stuff he ISNT getting credit for came from?

Holland was right there for all of it along with Jimmy Devalano, and in particular the scouting aspect of it was way more on Holland than anyone else. Devalano and he were a team and Holland was groomed to take over.

He is a slam dunk HOF guy who, as sports tends to, has seen his team go through a cycle from up to down...it happens to all great teams.

So because he has had a bad few years recently, what he did for 25+ years is tossed away and he is deemed as a poor GM?

Again, its an absurd and ill thought out take. Regardless of what happens in Edmonton (and lets call a spade a spade here, NO one will be able to turn that around anytime soon) he has been one of the better GM's this league has ever had.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

No GM in the history of the NHL has ever won a Cup... it was always because of the "guy before him"

Such a bizarre thing but its so true.

[GioforPM]

They may be being unfair on his record. But it's true at least that he wasn't a good cap manager and overpaid his players.

And he's now no good no matter what.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by getbak

He's not saying that Holland is actually a trust fund baby. He's comparing taking over the Red Wings in 1997 to being the hockey equivalent of a trust fund baby.

My reading comprehension was not good there.