New Poll: Should/Will the Flames Keep Treliving

[GreenLantern2814]

I've been a pretty strong Tre backer his entire tenure.

After six years, the team's best natural centre is arguably Mikael Backlund, which is a problem.

After six years, the best D on the team is still Mark Giordano, which is a problem.

After six years, the guy who started all our playoff games still isn't even the presumptive starter heading into next year - this is the third time in three post-season appearances that this has been the case, which is a problem.

Despite making the playoffs in four of six years, Treliving's teams have consistently had their doors blown off by real NHL teams, and it doesn't matter who the coach/goalie combo is. To say nothing of their complete inability to scheme up a defense to contain McDavid.

Hartley/Ramo/Hiller were no match for the Ducks.

Gulutzan/Elliott had no chance against the Ducks.

Peters/Smith were helpless against MacKinnon et al.

Thank Christ we got to play the Byfuglienless Jets Round 1, with no Scheifele or Laine, because I don't think we beat that team under normal circumstances.

Ward/Talbot were barely hanging on for six games against Dallas, and the skaters looked like they quit in Game 6 - if you're up 3 in the first 10 minutes of an elimination game, you've gotta at least make it to Game 7.

It's been six years of the same stuff. They refuse to win the game in the first 59 minutes and get by on their talent with these stupid comebacks. It was fun when Gaudreau was 22 and you could dream about what he'd be when he figured it out - it's less fun when you realize 'this is all there is'.

Perhaps not surprisingly, there's less motivation to break down the doors in a comeback when it means another 20 minutes of gruelling 5v5 OT and not 5 minutes of pond hockey followed by a skills competition before bed.

If we aren't going to be able to physically witness this team for another year anyway, this is the time to cut salary and rebuild.

We have one player who'd be a 1st line option on a true contender, and he wears 19.

Oh, and stop trading ####ing 1st round picks.

[Table 5]

For me it all depends on who the alternative is. If it's an internal hire like Conroy or Maloney...I think I'd rather just give Treliving one more year. If it's someone like Hextall, I'd give it a go.

[home_sweet_dome]

Should he be back? Absolutely not as detailed in other threads.

Will he be back? Likely cuz that's the Flames way.

This franchise has been utterly terrible for 30 years getting out of the 1st round only twice in that span and that's a direct reflection on ownership.

Although they've spent to the cap on players numerous times in that 30 year span especially lately they refuse to spend big money on good management and coaching which is even more important. As the saying goes "you get what you pay for" but our billionaire owners clearly haven't learned this lesson. If money is truly an issue they'd be much better off spending a few mill less on players and directing it to good management/coaches instead.

Sadly even if they do move on from Tre they'll likely just find a replacement in the clearance aisle and end up with someone worse like Risebrough or Feaster.

[TheChief]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I've been a pretty strong Tre backer his entire tenure.

After six years, the team's best natural centre is arguably Mikael Backlund, which is a problem.

After six years, the best D on the team is still Mark Giordano, which is a problem.

After six years, the guy who started all our playoff games still isn't even the presumptive starter heading into next year - this is the third time in three post-season appearances that this has been the case, which is a problem.

Despite making the playoffs in four of six years, Treliving's teams have consistently had their doors blown off by real NHL teams, and it doesn't matter who the coach/goalie combo is. To say nothing of their complete inability to scheme up a defense to contain McDavid.

Hartley/Ramo/Hiller were no match for the Ducks.

Gulutzan/Elliott had no chance against the Ducks.

Peters/Smith were helpless against MacKinnon et al.

Thank Christ we got to play the Byfuglienless Jets Round 1, with no Scheifele or Laine, because I don't think we beat that team under normal circumstances.

Ward/Talbot were barely hanging on for six games against Dallas, and the skaters looked like they quit in Game 6 - if you're up 3 in the first 10 minutes of an elimination game, you've gotta at least make it to Game 7.

It's been six years of the same stuff. They refuse to win the game in the first 59 minutes and get by on their talent with these stupid comebacks. It was fun when Gaudreau was 22 and you could dream about what he'd be when he figured it out - it's less fun when you realize 'this is all there is'.

Perhaps not surprisingly, there's less motivation to break down the doors in a comeback when it means another 20 minutes of gruelling 5v5 OT and not 5 minutes of pond hockey followed by a skills competition before bed.

If we aren't going to be able to physically witness this team for another year anyway, this is the time to cut salary and rebuild.

We have one player who'd be a 1st line option on a true contender, and he wears 19.

Oh, and stop trading ####ing 1st round picks.

I just have to say GREAT post. A competent organization would be showing Tree the door.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

I think there is still a lot of emotion in this.

The flames off ice org seems stronger and deeper than when Treliving took over.
He is definitely a senior steady presence to navigate crap like Peters.
Despite disappointments the team on ice got younger and better at the same time. Top to bottom I’d argue the flames are better off now than they have been since the 80s.
I don’t blame Treliving for Monahan and Gaudreau not living up to expectations. His problem to deal with. Not his fault.

Buuuutttt. Key decisions don’t seem his forte.

The Neal/lucic fiasco is huge. The team is short a top 6 fwd and he not only made a poor choice but doubled down with plan B. I loathe the trade. You can love it. Either way the flames are 5m and a good player short during the rest of the core’s prime years with seemingly no way out.

With hindsight the Hamilton trade is a loss. One Norris candidate and maybe a second for solid but unspectacular depth. We don’t know what teams offered or where players would sign. It’s Hall for Larsson territory in outcome. Hall for 2 Larson’s? Still not enough.

I think Treliving get gassed. It’s an outcomes business. Unlike most other Flames GMs he’ll have a good career though.

[Jeff Lebowski]

When doing these retrospective analysis on a GM (trades, not filling this hole #1D etc) you can't do it without context. Respectfully, there is so much dumb talk going on right now with all these posts and threads IMO.

For example if you are looking at why no #1C or #1D take a look at 2014 and 2015. Treliving just drafted Bennett in 2014 (don't get it twisted I love Bennett - have since he got here and never got down on him. I always believed in him) and in 2015 traded for Dougie (remember how some GMs didn't even know Dougie was available? It's because Treliving is working his butt off 24/7/365).

I just really think people have no clue what entails being a GM of a professional sports team. It's not as simple as posting potential lineups or trades on a forum.

When those events both happened I'm willing to bet all the naysayers (I want to use another term but will bite my tongue) were pretty damn happy (I could be wrong - perhaps there were some who did not approve).

Sometimes it doesn't go exactly to plan or on a specified timetable. The point is he made the assessments and acquired the players (Even though the Bennett draft was Burke's draft since Treliving took over in April that year.)

Treliving has been great - a great move by Burke to bring him over. By multiple accounts (look them up yourselves) he's incredibly hard working, meticulous, dedicated to improving the team, creative and he's tried to bring to fruition blockbuster trades.

There is just so much irrational, emotional crying right now. I get it. The team failed in the post season again but man there are some incredibly absurd posts floating fast and furious these days.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

When doing these retrospective analysis on a GM (trades, not filling this hole #1D etc) you can't do it without context. Respectfully, there is so much dumb talk going on right now with all these posts and threads IMO.

For example if you are looking at why no #1C or #1D take a look at 2014 and 2015. Treliving just drafted Bennett in 2014 (don't get it twisted I love Bennett - have since he got here and never got down on him. I always believed in him) and in 2015 traded for Dougie (remember how some GMs didn't even know Dougie was available? It's because Treliving is working his butt off 24/7/365).

I just really think people have no clue what entails being a GM of a professional sports team. It's not as simple as posting potential lineups or trades on a forum.

When those events both happened I'm willing to bet all the naysayers (I want to use another term but will bite my tongue) were pretty damn happy (I could be wrong - perhaps there were some who did not approve).

Sometimes it doesn't go exactly to plan or on a specified timetable. The point is he made the assessments and acquired the players (Even though the Bennett draft was Burke's draft since Treliving took over in April that year.)

Treliving has been great - a great move by Burke to bring him over. By multiple accounts (look them up yourselves) he's incredibly hard working, meticulous, dedicated to improving the team, creative and he's tried to bring to fruition blockbuster trades.

There is just so much irrational, emotional crying right now. I get it. The team failed in the post season again but man there are some incredibly absurd posts floating fast and furious these days.

I am not sure what you are arguing. That BT tried ? We all know he tried . That fans mostly thought they were good moves ? Well fans aren’t paid to run a team.

That being a GM is hard ? No argument there . But we’re in the results business. They Flames are relatively in cap jail , don’t have extra picks , and haven’t had any real success since BT took over.

[Timbo]

My question is do the Flames sports group have the funds to replace contractual employees with the current climate of revenue loss?
Is it possible that they can’t afford to payout managerial contracts at this time while taking on possibly even bigger contracts going forward.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Timbo

My question is do the Flames sports group have the funds to replace contractual employees with the current climate of revenue loss?
Is it possible that they can’t afford to payout managerial contracts at this time while taking on possibly even bigger contracts going forward.

'can't' is a strong word, but I would think their appetite for buyouts and doubling up managerial salaries would be very low

[Strange Brew]

I’m a little surprised he still has a job after asking ownership to buy out the Neal contract last summer.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I’m a little surprised he still has a job after asking ownership to buy out the Neal contract last summer.

Did that happen?

I wouldn’t be surprised if the pro scout who pushed for Neal was shown his pink slip

[kurwamac]

That's a pretty b it chy poll question. You seem like a coward gossiper in real life to me. You're not asking to get opinions, you're asking to make fun of people you disagree with.

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

'can't' is a strong word, but I would think their appetite for buyouts and doubling up managerial salaries would be very low

True ... can’t or will not or very reluctant also apply. Lol I live in my world where can’t afford is often a daily occurrence.

[AC]

Originally Posted by kurwamac

That's a pretty b it chy poll question. You seem like a coward gossiper in real life to me. You're not asking to get opinions, you're asking to make fun of people you disagree with.

Ok guy.

Keep fighting the good fight.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I’m a little surprised he still has a job after asking ownership to buy out the Neal contract last summer.

Treliving’s buyout record is, well, you decide.

Bouma bought out end of year 1/2.

Raymond bought out end of year 2/3.

Brouwer bought out end of year 2/4.

Stone bought out year 2/3.

Neal. Neal is why we have Lucic. Like, I know he had a decent finish and I think he’s about mid-20s on the list of this team’s problems, but oh my god we’re paying Milan Lucic $5.4M for another three years because Brad had to sign James Neal.

Every one of Treliving’s major free agent acquisitions could have had their production replaced by a player making $1M on a one year deal signed two weeks into free agency. And then they’d be heralded as value signings. Because they’d be doing anything it took to earn another $1M contract.

The best signing of Treliving’s entire administration was Kris Versteeg. And they signed him for nothing the day the season started, away from the team they were playing. He gave them 46 points in 67 games. That’ll do, Donkey.

They brought Versteeg back on another one year deal, and when his leg broke or his shoulder died or whatever happened, nobody was too fussed about it beyond general empathy for Versteeg. Because he was making no money and he was a UFA.

Mason Raymond didn’t need $9M. That guy played for $1M in Toronto, you could’ve had him for 1 year $2M. And if you couldn’t, then you shouldn’t have signed him. He’s Mason Raymond, he’s literally the opposite of a name drop.

The next GM should turn off his phone July 1. Build the team the right way, don’t knock up your prom date.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I am not sure what you are arguing. That BT tried ? We all know he tried . That fans mostly thought they were good moves ? Well fans aren’t paid to run a team.

That being a GM is hard ? No argument there . But we’re in the results business. They Flames are relatively in cap jail , don’t have extra picks , and haven’t had any real success since BT took over.

I'm arguing that fans are generally clueless about assessing a GM because they don't understand or know everything behind the scenes. For example how many people thought Joe Sakic was a terrible GM and shouldn't have a job a few years ago?

[Mr.Coffee]

With players you can watch them on the ice. With management it’s harder to know.

As per last night they need to blow this #### up. Treliving included. The man speaks well, he speaks fairly eloquently and that buys him way more rope than it should.

His actions and performance also speak though. And it’s..... not great. Not even good.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Did that happen?

I wouldn’t be surprised if the pro scout who pushed for Neal was shown his pink slip

Well I shouldn’t have said it like it’s a fact but I remember it being reported. I kind of assume the Flames leaked it to make the Lucic trade look better.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

With players you can watch them on the ice. With management it’s harder to know.

As per last night they need to blow this #### up. Treliving included. The man speaks well, he speaks fairly eloquently and that buys him way more rope than it should.

His actions and performance also speak though. And it’s..... not great. Not even good.

Could you imagine if Treliving treated the media the way Darryl Sutter did?

[nieuwy-89]

It’s time to move on.

I know he gets kudos for how he handled the Peters situation, but let’s not pretend that he didn’t know what he was getting.

He has not made a positive impact at all. Team is treading water. The collapse this year proves that losing remains a comfortable option in this organization.

So tired of this year after year. Watched the post game interviews and it’s all a bunch of victims, no accountability. Need a culture change, and it starts at the top.