Sean Monahan 2020 and Beyond

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

People talk like Monahan only ever had bad playoffs. I recall he was the only one that showed up against Anaheim 3 years ago.

And I don't get how people rag on Monahan, but give Backlund a free pass. Backlund wasn't good in these playoffs either. Why aren't we clamouring to trade him?

I thought Backlund was among the better forwards these playoffs.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I thought Backlund was among the better forwards these playoffs.

Really? I thought he was mediocre at best.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Really? I thought he was mediocre at best.

I agree. On a team that struggled to get their equipment on, Backlund showing up on the ice in full uniform means he was one of the better players.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by wretched34

I think the easiest way to understand it, is that Monahan's role is to get to the slot, and let Gaudreau set up the play, thus Gaudreau carries the puck, or Monahan dumps it into Gaudreaus corner so Gaudreau can retrieve it and set the play.

This thinking of Monahan not being able to carry the puck, or set up plays is definitely blown out of proportion. in 2018/19, when Lindholm was first added to the top line, the dynamic changed to a full on attack line, with all 3 forwards carrying the puck and setting up plays.
With that, Johnny put up a career high in goals (36), Lindholm set a career high in goals (27), and Monahan set a career high in assists (48). This year for whatever reason they play very much reverted back to Johnny carrying the puck, and running the offense off the half boards, and all 3 forwards took a drastic hit in production.

I get what you’re trying to get at, but I don’t agree with it. The top line in 18-19 scored the majority of their points on the forecheck. They turned pucks over on a regular basis and created the majority of their scoring chances this way.

If anybody wants proof, check AC’s highlights of just Johnny Gaudreau and count how many goals or scoring chances were created by their forecheck. It’s certainly in line with Ward’s tagline of “check for your chances.”

Honestly, I’ve never seen Monahan drive this line. He’s always been the guy who waits for Gaudreau to draw defenders, while he stalks in the weeds or in front of the net. Without a guy who can do that for him, he’s basically incapable of doing it himself. I don’t know how many actual dangerous scoring chances Monahan had in 10 games this playoffs, but I could probably count on 1 hand how many. The same pretty much goes for Lindholm and Gaudreau as well to a lesser extent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Harry Lime]

Johnny has become such a crutch for that line, and the first PP, that it's almost become comical. Monahan and Lindholm were wasted on that line, they essentially played as foils to Gaudreu the entire time. They just waited for the pass.

Johnny lining up for a zone entry must have become the easiest thing for the opposing coach to plan against. Let Johnny in, cover the other two forwards and one high to protect against the one-timer. Then just rub him out and take the puck.

I have no idea what Monahan or Lindholm looks like as players when they are allowed to play to their ability.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I thought Backlund was among the better forwards these playoffs.

Agreed. Backlund was probably the most consistent and reliable player all playoffs long. Their line contributed greatly to the win vs the Jets. He plays in all situations and was very noticeable most games.

Obviously the Lucic-Bennett-Dube line was easily the most impactful line through 10 games, but Backlund more than held his own in a very tough shutdown role.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I want to keep Monahan. I think the playoff whiffs are fair to criticize but his impact overall on this franchise far exceeds that of a handful of playoff games.

You just simply do not trade your best center when the entire franchise has been without one for decades prior. Of all the players who deserve extra lives he is the 1st.

We're not trading Backlund.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I get what you’re trying to get at, but I don’t agree with it. The top line in 18-19 scored the majority of their points on the forecheck. They turned pucks over on a regular basis and created the majority of their scoring chances this way.

If anybody wants proof, check AC’s highlights of just Johnny Gaudreau and count how many goals or scoring chances were created by their forecheck. It’s certainly in line with Ward’s tagline of “check for your chances.”

Honestly, I’ve never seen Monahan drive this line. He’s always been the guy who waits for Gaudreau to draw defenders, while he stalks in the weeds or in front of the net. Without a guy who can do that for him, he’s basically incapable of doing it himself. I don’t know how many actual dangerous scoring chances Monahan had in 10 games this playoffs, but I could probably count on 1 hand how many. The same pretty much goes for Lindholm and Gaudreau as well to a lesser extent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As you just pointed out, in 2018-2019, when all 3 forwards forechecked, and played the puck, they all saw a huge increase in production.
Does that not essentially drive home the point, that when Monahan makes plays, the entire line reaps the rewards, where as when he is stuck waiting on Johnny to make something happen, less and less actually happens.

This is why a Line of Hall-Monahan-Tkachuk could be incredible.
All 3 have size, some snarl, and a tonne of skill.
Any one of those 3, at any given time could win a battle below the goal line, and know full well, that if they threw the puck to the slot, someone will be there. As it stands now, Lindholm is the only one on the top line that can battle below the line, because if Monahan does, there is no one in the slot.
Having Johnny float along the boards creates a huge disadvantage for the line because it means his teammates are limited to what they can do. This is why Monahan plants himself in the slot, and nothing else.

[JohnnyB]

I'm all for Monahan being moved, but there needs to be a true 1C coming in. It could also make sense if they decide to blow it all up and rebuild, but otherwise without a 1C coming in the team just gets worse.

I guess a good 2C who shows up in the playoffs would also be an improvement, but not enough of what the team needs.

[Monahammer]

I like Backlund but it is damn foolish to claim he's better than Monahan. There are no metrics that agree with this.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

We're not trading Backlund.

[Johnhitbox]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I want to keep Monahan. I think the playoff whiffs are fair to criticize but his impact overall on this franchise far exceeds that of a handful of playoff games.

You just simply do not trade your best center when the entire franchise has been without one for decades prior. Of all the players who deserve extra lives he is the 1st.

He’s far from being the best option of a good center. He would be a second, maybe even third line center, for another team. At this point anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

He’s far from being the best option of a good center. He would be a second, maybe even third line center, for another team. At this point anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lets get real here. Third line centre? I get people are emotional, but come on. I guess Johnny's nothing by an AHL tweener now too huh?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I’ll never understand this line of thinking that Gaudreau somehow holds Monahan back from carrying the puck up the ice. Don’t you think that if Monahan could do it, he would’ve shown in 500+ games?...

The thing is, Monahan used to do it. That first season that he and Gaudreau played together he carried the puck into the offensive zone a lot, and it was a big part of what made that duo so dangerous, and which got many of us so excited.

I maintain that the two of them became just so comfortable with one another that for Monahan it was increasingly more natural to defer to Gaudreau, who emerged as the one who chose to carry the puck all the time to begin with.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I like Backlund but it is damn foolish to claim he's better than Monahan. There are no metrics that agree with this.

Last year and this year in the playoffs 5 on 5:

Backlund (against MacKinnon, Seguin, starting more in the defensive zone): 48.08% corsi for, 46.98% expected goals for, 48.32% high danger corsi for

Monahan (against Compher, Dickinson, starting more in the offensive zone):
45.97% corsi for, 44.96% expected goals for, 40.99% high danger corsi for

How do people see one centre possessing the puck, driving the middle of the ice and transitioning and one who's either chasing around in his own zone or dumping the puck and think the second is better than the first?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Johnhitbox

He’s far from being the best option of a good center. He would be a second, maybe even third line center, for another team. At this point anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, this is nuts. I can certainly concede that Monahan is not a prototypical top-line NHL centre, and he quite possibly never will be. But this idea that he is somehow merely an average or worse second line pivot is completely ridiculous. Since he entered the League Monahan is the #16 scoring centre in the entire NHL, and ahead of such stalwarts as O'Reilly, Johansson, Schenn, Duchene, Couturier and Krejci. Players of that calibre who are 25-years old are not playing on anyone's third line.

[Johnhitbox]

He’s had multiple surgery’s on his wrists and hands. Maybe he’s lost his touch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Johnny has become such a crutch for that line, and the first PP, that it's almost become comical. Monahan and Lindholm were wasted on that line, they essentially played as foils to Gaudreu the entire time. They just waited for the pass.

Johnny lining up for a zone entry must have become the easiest thing for the opposing coach to plan against. Let Johnny in, cover the other two forwards and one high to protect against the one-timer. Then just rub him out and take the puck.

I have no idea what Monahan or Lindholm looks like as players when they are allowed to play to their ability.

I'm curious as to why you're ragging on the powerplay? It was a top 3 powerplay and was the only reason the top line had any success this playoffs. It was also very good in the regular season and has generally been very good over the last few years.

There's also about 5 seasons of Lindholm in Carolina that you can look at to see what Lindholm is. Personally, I don't want to know what Monahan is with out Gaudreau. I've seen them apart and I've never been too impressed. There was that month when Gaudreau was out with a broken finger, where Monahan was asked to drive his own line. If I'm not mistaken, he was almost scratched against the Islanders for his performance. I wouldn't want to see that again, trade Monahan or both of them IMO.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yeah, this is nuts. I can certainly concede that Monahan is not a prototypical top-line NHL centre, and he quite possibly never will be. But this idea that he is somehow merely an average or worse second line pivot is completely ridiculous. Since he entered the League Monahan is the #16 scoring centre in the entire NHL, and ahead of such stalwarts as O'Reilly, Johansson, Schenn, Duchene, Couturier and Krejci. Players of that calibre who are 25-years old are not playing on anyone's third line.

And one of the biggest defensive liabilities on the team.

[Inglewood Jack]

This argument has become too easy to boil down as Monahan supporters listing scoring stats, and Monahan detractors listing possession stats. I guess it’s a matter of how much you favor process vs result.

I’m still a big Johnny fan and my personal preference is for him to stay, but I have a morbid curiosity about how the Siamese twins will do once permanently sawed apart.