The Brain Drain Thread

[RoadGame]

At the risk of running afoul of the thread police I thought this risked being a distraction in the AB politics thread.

Some posters have mentioned having already left Alberta in recent years. Others are considering it. Your reasons are your reasons and may have nothing to do with the UCP or the economy; this isn't meant to be a thread for bashing on those topics.

The intent is to provide a place where people considering a destination can ask if others have any experience with or knowledge about that destination.

In my own case, I'm wondering about Vernon in particular. What is the town like? Any experience with the schools? Neighbourhoods with good/bad reputations? Housing looks reasonable, a bit better value for money than Calgary and certainly better value for money than Kelowna (my impression so far). How does the weather compare with Calgary?

Thanks in advance for anyone with insights, and feel free to add your own questions anyone who is similarly kicking tires.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by RoadGame

At the risk of running afoul of the thread police I thought this risked being a distraction in the AB politics thread.



Some posters have mentioned having already left Alberta in recent years. Others are considering it. Your reasons are your reasons and may have nothing to do with the UCP or the economy; this isn't meant to be a thread for bashing on those topics.



The intent is to provide a place where people considering a destination can ask if others have any experience with or knowledge about that destination.



In my own case, I'm wondering about Vernon in particular. What is the town like? Any experience with the schools? Neighbourhoods with good/bad reputations? Housing looks reasonable, a bit better value for money than Calgary and certainly better value for money than Kelowna (my impression so far). How does the weather compare with Calgary?



Thanks in advance for anyone with insights, and feel free to add your own questions anyone who is similarly kicking tires.

Ive lived in Kelowna the distance to Vernon is not far, so I can answer weather. It gets very hot in the summer ive had mornings where its 30c by 1000 am. So you get a real summer out in the okanagan, winters can be cold you get the white stuff. No chinooks but I never found the cold winters crazy cold, and like the lower mainland you dont plug in your cars at night.

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[vegasbound]

Originally Posted by RoadGame

At the risk of running afoul of the thread police I thought this risked being a distraction in the AB politics thread.

Some posters have mentioned having already left Alberta in recent years. Others are considering it. Your reasons are your reasons and may have nothing to do with the UCP or the economy; this isn't meant to be a thread for bashing on those topics.

The intent is to provide a place where people considering a destination can ask if others have any experience with or knowledge about that destination.

In my own case, I'm wondering about Vernon in particular. What is the town like? Any experience with the schools? Neighbourhoods with good/bad reputations? Housing looks reasonable, a bit better value for money than Calgary and certainly better value for money than Kelowna (my impression so far). How does the weather compare with Calgary?

Thanks in advance for anyone with insights, and feel free to add your own questions anyone who is similarly kicking tires.

Vernon is okay, I grew up there. As a youngish person, it's hard to find jobs. Out of my friends from high school, I only have 2 living in the area still. Most have moved away for better jobs/opportunities/school. The one knock I have on Vernon in terms of weather is the socked in grey it gets during winter. Do I go back and visit lots? Yes. Would I move back? Probably not, unless I had a really good job lined up.

[Mass_nerder]

I literally just moved from Calgary to Vernon 2 months ago.
Graduated with a Master of Architecture, but there's not much going on in Calgary, so I had to get out.

I don't have any experience with schools as my kid is only a month old, but so far so good! The weather is great; partly cloudy and 6-7° today, with all the leaves still on the trees and slowly turning yellow and red. The end of August and into September was pretty toasty, but almost every place I looked at to live had AC.
Rent is pretty comparable to Calgary, but rental stock is a lot smaller, so there wasn't a huge variety of choices (although we found a 3 bedroom place we're happy with for under $2000/month). Also, a lot of places either don't allow kids, or don't allow pets, so that made things a little more difficult as well.
I haven't been here long enough to know which communities to avoid, but I've heard 24th Street is pretty sketchy.

Shopping options are limited (housewares, clothing etc...) So you'll have to go to Kelowna if you want a little more variety, but there are plenty of grocery stores etc... There's also not much of a core, and there's a pretty big homeless population, but I haven't had any bad experiences.

Vernon has access to Kalamaka and Okanagan Lake which is nice obviously, and there are tons of hiking trails, and biking nearby.

Overall, I've definitely enjoyed Vernon so far.

[Hemi-Cuda]

I grew up in that area, nice to visit now but I could never go back to live there. Of my high school class it seems like you either moved away to find a decent job, stayed put and got a job as a truck driver, or got lost in drug addiction. Even with how grim things look these days in Calgary, I know my kids will have more opportunities here than in the Okanagan

[WhiteTiger]

In the last couple months, my wife has started thinking about this. She's born and raised Calgarian, and I never thought that she'd even consider moving.

[81MC]

Vernon has a couple small gems. Antiques shops, a really great coffee shop across from the bus loop, the Jazz society has a great venue. Great lake, provincial park, lots of trails. I really like the whole area north/east of Vernon too, has a great rural charm.

It does however have a long standing addiction and homelessness issue, reasonable amount of petty crime, and the general economy is slow. There is a lot of wealth disparity, and I really wonder how long the entire valley can sustain itself. Entry level housing and rental rates are through the roof, and the economy is almost entirely propped up by wealthy tourists.

If you don’t need to worry about taking a hit in your disposable income, don’t mind the heat, and don’t mind a really slow pace of life during the winter, it’s hard to go wrong.

[FireGilbert]

My big brain was drained out of Alberta over a decade ago. I planned on staying in Calgary my entire life but this was derailed after losing my job in 2009 two years into my engineering career. I decided on a working holiday then planned on coming home in a year when the economy improved but scrapped that after getting a work visa in Australia. As much as I miss all my family and friends leaving Alberta was probably the best thing that ever happened to my career.

[JR449]

Been looking for anything IT recently. Nothing but developer roles . Brain drain is real but not for super specialized niches.

[station]

I moved from Calgary to Salmon Arm five years ago. No knock on Calgary cause I loved it there too, but moving here is among the best choices I ever made.

Salmon Arm is about 40 minutes north of and about half the size of Vernon. Vernon is a bit drier and sunnier but the climate anywhere in the interior of BC is way different from Calgary. We get 4 distinct seasons. Summers are hot with regular mid 30s. Winter doesn’t really get going until Christmas and is usually over by late Feb to mid-March. Biggest culture shock was the lack of nightlife and good restaurants although that is changing and Kelowna and Kamloops are mid-size cities not far away. There are quite a few tourists in the summer. Most of these towns have had an older age demographic but the last few years have seen a ton of younger people moving here from bigger cities. Biggest upsides are affordable housing (compared to Calgary and Vancouver), great schools, recreation, weather, and sense of community. There is a also a much better jobs scene than people think. Salmon Arm has a strong manufacturing sector and roughly 80 tech companies (in a town of 20,000) and many of these companies are hiring.

Vernon does have a reputation as a bit of a rougher town and Maclean’s ranks it #44 in its most dangerous places to live (vs Kelowna #139 and Salmon Arm #188). https://www.macleans.ca/canadas-most...s-places-2020/

For what it’s worth Salmon Arm was also ranked number 1 in BC and number 6 in all of Canada in Maclean’s 2019 ranking of 415 Canadian communities.
https://www.macleans.ca/best-communi...-ranking-tool/

[Locke]

Salmon dont have arms. It makes no sense.

[JohnnyB]

It's almost 20 years now since I first moved away from Calgary. Hard to believe that.

The Okanagan is pretty much the only area of Canada that appeals to me now. All of Canada feels slow and kind of bland compared with Asia, but if slow is what you like the Okanagan has the nicest combo of weather, lifestyle and friendliness. I would be happy splitting my time between the Okanagan and Asia. If I had kids, I would be happy for them to grow up there.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

Salmon dont have arms. It makes no sense.

/thread

You win Locke

[Huntingwhale]

I moved to Poland a couple months ago. It was strictly a personal decision, as my fiancé lives in that region. We didn't want to simply get married, move back to our separate countries, then file for her papers while living apart. That would raise red flags on her application (false marriage) and frankly it would suck for both of us. We wanted to find a way to move in and live together as a trial run before getting married, find employment, then get married and file her sponsorship papers. How to pull all that off and not be homeless was the big complicated question.

I took a shot in the dark presenting my situation to my bosses/HR and inquiring if it would be feasible for the company to allow me to work remotely. I learned quickly it's definitely not as simple as ''working remotely'' from another country like many people think it is (that is very much illegal). I was told I could work overseas, but would have to transfer to one of their overseas offices in a designated city. We chose Gdansk, Poland. Thankfully somebody, somewhere up the ladder gave it their approval! Things got delayed when covid broke out in March, but eventually everything got processed internally and from a work permit/visa perspective at the end of August and things moved quickly after.

This move won't be permanent. We do plan on returning to Calgary in a couple years once I am able to sponsor her as my spouse. Some days I still have to pinch myself that I get to experience living in a new country, be with my fiancé, and still have income. I was sad to leave my family, but they fully supported me since the day I told them my plan. Life is an adventure, and this is certainly a big one.

My decision had nothing to do with the UCP, economy or whatever other brain-drain factors Alberta has a reputation for these days. But following all that is happening on those fronts, it made the decision a lot easier. Eventually we'll return to Calgary and have to face those challenges. I don't expect everything to magically be fixed when I return. Would be nice to see things moving steadily in a new direction though.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Locke

Salmon dont have arms. It makes no sense.

Liverpool? Imagine a swimming pool full of liver. Gross.

[CliffFletcher]

The only place I've visited in the interior that I could imagine moving to is Kimberly. Doesn't feel as sketchy as a lot of other towns (Cranbrook, Blairmore, Kamloops), but it still seems like a genuine community and not a resort town (Fernie, Invermere).

[Table 5]

Huntingwhale you sound like the perfect candidate for a House Hunters International episode.

[calf]

How are people feeling about Ontario? Toronto or SW Ontario?

I know Doug Ford's government has many warts, but in comparison to Kenney, how would it be?

There's a less than 1% chance of us leaving Alberta as we need to be close to our parents who aren't moving, but we have lots of family in that region which would make it a bit easier of a transition than BC where we know nobody.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calf

How are people feeling about Ontario? Toronto or SW Ontario?

I know Doug Ford's government has many warts, but in comparison to Kenney, how would it be?

There's a less than 1% chance of us leaving Alberta as we need to be close to our parents who aren't moving, but we have lots of family in that region which would make it a bit easier of a transition than BC where we know nobody.

Do you enjoy soul sucking commutes through infinite traffic on a daily basis?

[Table 5]

The problem with moving out of Calgary, is where else do you go in Canada?

Edmonton - The ####ty version of Calgary. It's like Calgary in March where everything is covered in dirty slush, but year round. No thanks.
Vancouver - Stupidly expensive, math doesn't check out. Also high % of smug aholes, walking zombies, and 16-year olds with cars worth more than your house.
Toronto - Also getting stupidly expensive, unless you're ok with living in a shoebox, or a bland box far from everything. Also have to live with fact you're living in the try-hard version of NYC.
Montreal - Great city, but the whole language thing will always be a barrier. There is duck in a can though, so hmmmm.
Saskatoon/Regina - Probably stable economy wise, but small and so far away from everything.
Victoria - Too many hippies, hobos, old people. Probably can't even afford to live in the tent city.
Island/Interior BC - Some nice small towns, but tend to be remote, limited work and amenity wise, and not always cheap.
Winnipeg - I don't mind cold, but not that cold.
Maritimes - Remote, cold, everyone talks like a leprechaun, you're always half an hour off.

What are you left with...Ottawa maybe? That doesn't excite me so much.

I think I'll stick it out, thanks.