Its funny, I remember watching the big Press Conference at my office with some fellow Flames fans, friends and clients and we were all enthralled at the audacity of the idea of the project.
And everyone was really excited they even didnt care about the grade-school level renderings, but then the Financial slide came up and my heart just sank.
It took me a grand total of 3 seconds to look at that and know immediately that everything else was BS. It was done. That was never, ever, ever going to work.
You know, looking back on it now, it wasn't the contamination cost alone that killed the project. As you mentioned, the revealing of the concept was completely unexpected, and was incredibly ambitious. It actually wasn't a bad idea, and a solution that kills multiple birds at once.
But, the selling of the vision was incredibly weak. Starting with the initial renders, it looked too unfinished for a very big pitch. When that followed up with the costs, it was lost. That could've been countered by having a strong pitch the city as a whole in why this is a great idea, and why Calgary needs it, rather than wants it. Make a strong enough case, and show why plan B isn't satisfactory in comparison for this city. If they did that, and had more realistic renders that looked good - and made it feel more real - it may have overcome the cleanup costs, and been turn into reality.
Would've been interesting having this in the skyline.
Spoiler!
But, this is what we'll stick with for the foreseeable future...
Spoiler!
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The more that comes out the more I think it really just was poor timing. Which is okay. I understand it. But quit trying to pin the blame on the other side.
I’d have a lot more respect if both sides would have just come together, released a joint statement saying the project wasn’t financially viable at this time, and that the project would be re-evaluated in the future.
Instead we got a bunch of egotistical man-children slinging mud trying to sewer the other side and win the public’s favour.
I guess what I'm seeing from the city (and this is more so administration than council) is they're trying to lay out the facts and be as open as they can about it. The mayor, certain councilors, and CSEC have applied some spin to it. I think Mayor Gondek was trying to be relatively factual in stating what CSEC saw as unreconcilable issues, but did so in a way to paint CSEC into a corner.
I think the city has made their case that they were trying to make CSEC as aware as possible of the costs of certain things. Most of the public is naive as to how any construction project works, so it seems like the city is changing the requirements, when in reality that's just how building anything works. As the design gets more refined the scope or costs change along the way. It was like that when I built my house, or when you move from a conceptual design to a specific design in something like software development.
Frankly, the slew of opinion pieces from the Herald and Sun trying to blame this on the city is appalling to me. I'd really like CSEC to just be honest about the fact that the costs of the building itself are giving CSEC sticker shock and they don't want to maintain the current agreement, but, in my opinion, that would make them look weak.
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Would've been interesting having this in the skyline.
Agreed. The Flames had been working on what was possible with that West Village location for several years leading up to 2015. Several master plans were done for that area which featured variations of an awesome sports district, combined with commercial and residential. That's the spot the Flames really wanted more than any, including where it will now be. Such a good location too; would have really galvanized that area tremendously.
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Agreed. The Flames had been working on what was possible with that West Village location for several years leading up to 2015. Several master plans were done for that area which featured variations of an awesome sports district, combined with commercial and residential. That's the spot the Flames really wanted more than any, including where it will now be. Such a good location too; would have really galvanized that area tremendously.
It was a big idea, and I commend them for that. It was recognizing the idea of setting up a district where you can live, work, and play in one specific spot of the downtown area, and addressing many issues all at once.
Didn't work out, but the spirit of the idea can still be realized in East Victoria Park. May not have have a 2-for-1 sports complex out of it, but it does get me more aboard on the pitched idea on this forum to renovate/rebuild the Stampede Grandstand to address the McMahon Stadium issue. You can move the Stamps (and possible future teams in the long run) downtown, and have the Stampede grounds having all of Calgary's big entertainment draws in one spot.
May have have a 2-for-1 sports complex out of it, but it does get me more aboard on the pitched idea on this forum to renovate/rebuild the Stampede Grandstand to address the McMahon Stadium issue.
I'm having trouble figuring out how you combine a rodeo infield with a football field when the Stampede runs during the CFL season. Is there some way to switch rapidly between artificial turf and artificial dirt?
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I'm having trouble figuring out how you combine a rodeo infield with a football field when the Stampede runs during the CFL season. Is there some way to switch rapidly between artificial turf and artificial dirt?
A retracting field similar to Arizona Cardinals field.
I'm having trouble figuring out how you combine a rodeo infield with a football field when the Stampede runs during the CFL season. Is there some way to switch rapidly between artificial turf and artificial dirt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Since1984
A retracting field similar to Arizona Cardinals field.
Or, you could simply cover the turf, and put dirt on it. It's what they do at NRG Stadium (Houston Texans) when they have the Rodeo in their stadium.
Spoiler!
The endzone seating would have the be moveable obviously.
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I'm having trouble figuring out how you combine a rodeo infield with a football field when the Stampede runs during the CFL season. Is there some way to switch rapidly between artificial turf and artificial dirt?
They do it every year in Houston for their big rodeo.
It shouldn't be any different than hauling dirt into any other arena or stadium for a rodeo or monster truck show. Cover over the turf and haul in the dirt. Once the rodeo is over, haul it out and uncover the field.
The Saddledome used to host Rodeo Royal every year in the middle of the hockey season. Rexall Place hosted the CFR every year for over 40 years during the hockey season.
The Stamps play on the road during Stampede Week every year anyway, so they wouldn't be disrupting their schedule.
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The last time the CFR shared Rexall with the Oilers was 2015. The Oilers played a home game on November 6 and the rodeo started on the 11th. The final day of the rodeo was November 15 and the Oilers had a home game on the 18th.
That's how fast they can do a switchover in a hockey arena.
If there was a full week between the rodeo and a football game, there should be more than enough time to do the switchover.
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They actually do a modified chuckwagon race inside the stadium in Houston.
It's weird if you're used to Calgary. Three wagons, no outriders, and two laps around the stadium...
If they were going to do it in Calgary, all they'd need to do is keep the ends of the stadium open and keep the track around the outside like there is now.
The chucks are an ongoing challenge anyway, so who knows how much life they have in them? Basically, the sport only survives because of the money they get from the Stampede.
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The chucks in Houston are awfully lame IMO. It’s just a sideshow between the actual rodeo events and not a real competition. It’s nothing to aspire to IMO.
The more that comes out the more I think it really just was poor timing. Which is okay. I understand it. But quit trying to pin the blame on the other side.
I’d have a lot more respect if both sides would have just come together, released a joint statement saying the project wasn’t financially viable at this time, and that the project would be re-evaluated in the future.
Instead we got a bunch of egotistical man-children slinging mud trying to sewer the other side and win the public’s favour.
I agree but oneside wasn’t on the hook for cost over runs so in terms of who is misrepresenting things it’s pretty one side.
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Orphan wells actually have a fund set up by industry. The west end land is the City’s problem. Why would the province or the feds cover that?
CSEC’s plan was the best opportunity to deal with it in a development sense.
Wouldn't regulatory jurisdiction come into play to some extent? ie. The gov't failed to properly regulate the industry, so they bear some responsibility?
I believe the city also felt they had a strong court case against Domtar, though AFAIK that remains unresolved.
The process of purchasing that land certainly seems to smell, but that land should still end up as a net positive in the long run as long as they don't use half of it on a field of schemes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
I'm having trouble figuring out how you combine a rodeo infield with a football field when the Stampede runs during the CFL season. Is there some way to switch rapidly between artificial turf and artificial dirt?
IIRC the Stamps are always scheduled on the road during Stampede week(s), often including a bye week, too. For example, 2016 they played:
Fri July 1 - Home
Fri July 8 - OTT (Day 1 Stampede)
Bye week (Stampede ended July 18)
July 21 - WPG
Fri July 29 - Home
So in that case 7 days pre, 11 days post.
Plenty of design options could make it work...ever seen a timelapse of Staples (MSG, etc.) converting from hockey to hoops in about 3 hours? FWIW about 4 NHL rinks would fit inside a CFL football field, or 10 NBA floors.
Considering they hold a lot of rodeos inside arenas, I suspect the Stampede infield may be larger than necessary (to accomodate the chuckwagon barrels?)
