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Old 12-27-2017, 10:19 AM   #161
MickMcGeough
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Figured it was best to bump this thread. Going to take the plunge in the next few days to piecing together my first setup. Nothing fancy, but debating between these two:

Fluance RT80
https://www.amazon.ca/Turntable-Adju...4-62c82ff200de

Audio-Technica AT-LP60BK
https://www.amazon.ca/Audio-Technica...4-62c82ff200de

Anyone have any experience with either? As a novice, am I going to notice a difference between them?

Also, anyone have any recommendations for an amp? Anyone with experience on powered speakers instead of an amp?

Of the two (of which I don't have direct experience), I'd recommend the Fluance. Audio Technica is a good brand but this Fluance has much better upgradeability for the future. It uses a standard headshell so you'll have more cartridge options later, and you can disable the internal (and probably pretty low end) phono stage with a switch if you want a better phono preamp later.

If you can extend your budget to the RT81, it's a worthwhile upgrade - it's got a much better cartridge.

All that said - for turntables under $500 I recommend the used market. $200 will get you a used turntable that can compete with new ones in $500 range.



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Old 12-27-2017, 12:07 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCAV View Post
Figured it was best to bump this thread. Going to take the plunge in the next few days to piecing together my first setup. Nothing fancy, but debating between these two:

Fluance RT80
https://www.amazon.ca/Turntable-Adju...4-62c82ff200de

Audio-Technica AT-LP60BK
https://www.amazon.ca/Audio-Technica...4-62c82ff200de

Anyone have any experience with either? As a novice, am I going to notice a difference between them?

Also, anyone have any recommendations for an amp? Anyone with experience on powered speakers instead of an amp?
I wouldn't buy either in all honesty. I am skeptical of the many turntables available now in the $300.00. range. I don't believe the quality control is there and, in order to satisfy the profit margins of the many links in the supply chain, the manufacturers have to use cheap parts. I think you would be doing well to get five years out of either.

I echo Mick's suggestion to check out the used market. There is a nice Kenwood and several Duals available on Kijiji.

There are pros and cons to passive and powered speakers and there is no definitive answer.

In my opinion find an amp with the most power output that is within your budget.
There is a very nice Toshiba pre-amp/amp on Kijiji for 250.00
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:49 PM   #163
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couldn't somebody go for a tech 1200 or 1210. should be able to pick em up under 400 on craigslist or something?
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:50 AM   #164
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couldn't somebody go for a tech 1200 or 1210. should be able to pick em up under 400 on craigslist or something?
Prices are rising. My 1200 was $550 last year. Clean/mint examples are going for $600-$800 now.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/...ationFlag=true

Or you could buy the new 1200 for $5000
https://baybloorradio.com/technics-s...rive-turntable
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:22 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by FCAV View Post
Figured it was best to bump this thread. Going to take the plunge in the next few days to piecing together my first setup. Nothing fancy, but debating between these two:

Fluance RT80
https://www.amazon.ca/Turntable-Adju...4-62c82ff200de

Audio-Technica AT-LP60BK
https://www.amazon.ca/Audio-Technica...4-62c82ff200de

Anyone have any experience with either? As a novice, am I going to notice a difference between them?

Also, anyone have any recommendations for an amp? Anyone with experience on powered speakers instead of an amp?
I wouldn't buy the AT-LP60BK. It's a rebranded one with the same guts as the Sony PS LX300 USB. It has no anti skate or adjustable counterweight and uses a spring-powered tonearm which means you can't adjust the pressure on your stylus which can lead to skipping/mistracking/groove wear.

The Fluance should be okay as it has an actual counter-balanced tonearm and the usual adjustments. Much of the quality will be in the cartridge/stylus which you can always replace when you like.

Others to consider in that price range are PRO JECT Debut Carbon, TEAC TN-300, Audio Technica LP-120.

As far as amps/speakers, that's another can of worms. You won't be able to go directly to powered speakers unless the turntable has a built in pre-amp. Vintage ones won't have this but most of the new ones do. You need the pre-amp for the RIAA equalization circuit that's needed to "decode" the way audio is recorded onto vinyl and to get it to line-level that modern powered speakers need.

Speaking of the Audio Technica LP-120, mine is for sale. Almost brand new. I only used it for a month before I decided to splurge on a vintage Technics SL-1200 MKII. It has USB and also a preamp as well as many features like adjustable tone arm height, anti-skate, 33/45/78, variable speed adjustment, track light, adjustable feet, etc. and it's also direct drive. All those other turntables are belt driven.

Retail is $400. I got it from Axe Music last year. If any CPers are interested, they can have it for $300.

Last edited by Hack&Lube; 12-28-2017 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:16 PM   #166
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Hey FCAV- Check your PM
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:13 PM   #167
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Leaning towards the RT80. Would opt for the RT81, but prefer the black. I can upgrade the cartridge for essentially the price difference it looks like, should I want to do that a bit later.
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:40 AM   #168
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Leaning towards the RT80. Would opt for the RT81, but prefer the black. I can upgrade the cartridge for essentially the price difference it looks like, should I want to do that a bit later.
The AT91 on the RT80 will be fine for anybody getting into the hobby. I'd run it until I was bored of it. The AT95 is a decent all rounder as well and comes with many modern turntables but is also nothing to write home about.

That said, I've never really gotten anything out of good carts or heard that much of a difference to justify some of the prices.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:19 AM   #169
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The AT91 on the RT80 will be fine for anybody getting into the hobby. I'd run it until I was bored of it. The AT95 is a decent all rounder as well and comes with many modern turntables but is also nothing to write home about.

That said, I've never really gotten anything out of good carts or heard that much of a difference to justify some of the prices.

For me I notice the big differences with different stylus profiles. Going from a Shure M95 to an Audio Technica AT440MLB was a huge change to the sound.


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Old 01-05-2018, 10:28 AM   #170
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For me I notice the big differences with different stylus profiles. Going from a Shure M95 to an Audio Technica AT440MLB was a huge change to the sound.


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Yeah, the AT91 is a conical stylus and the AT95 is elliptical. I do notice a little more clarity with that if I try really hard but in the whole combination of all the setup, it hasn't produced that much more bang for the buck for me. I've been out of the hobby for about a year now but I used to be obsessed with all this stuff.
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Old 01-07-2022, 03:47 PM   #171
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Bump!

So I've caught the HiFi audio bug. I mostly blame Tidal and the Naim Uniti Atom, as after hearing them at my parents house, I really clued into how much different a high-quality source and system can make. It's funny to say, but it rekindled my love of music again, and it's become a nice family for us to bond over.

After constant YouTube watching and research, I pulled the trigger on a few used items, including a vintage Sansui 8080db Receiver and a Luxman PD 277 turntable. I'm really happy with them both, and dig the vintage warm sound and aesthetic.

One thing I really need to do is upgrade my speakers, as I currently have some hand-me-down home-theatre-focused Athena speakers that aren't bad, but clearly show their limits with music. Problem is I'm unsure of which way to go... do I buy new, or look for vintage speakers? And if vintage, which ones? I listen to mostly 60-90s rock/jazz/blues/pop and tend to like a warm inviting sound (I find most modern speakers too detailed/clinical).

Any suggestions? Budget really depends on what is available. If it's vintage, probably don't want to pay more than $2K, if its new probably max of $4K.

Some options I've considered:
Spendor/Harbeth BBC-type speakers
Klipsch Heritage line (Heresy IV?)
Dynaudio Evoke 20 / Heritage Special
Vintage JBL type speakers (too many different models for me to differentiate between)

The one caveat is that I need to place them relatively close to the wall (say a foot) so they can't be speakers that only sound good if placed in the middle of the room. They will be part of our living room, not some special audio room.
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Old 01-07-2022, 03:52 PM   #172
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This is all info from years(decades? ugh) ago, but I always found Klipsch to be the opposite of what you want. Sharp, harsh, not warm. JBL I found too round and soft. To muddled of a sound. Can't comment on the others. Polk Audio are a good happy medium, but I say that for bookshelf size, which I have a few pairs of. Nothing bigger though.


Congrats on the new gear!
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Old 01-07-2022, 04:04 PM   #173
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I've heard that about Klipsch as well, although reviews make it seem like the newer ones are no longer as harsh as they used to be. I guess the reason I am considering the brand is people say they are good for rock, which I do listen to quite a bit. Atleast based on Youtube videos I love the Klipsch La Scala sound... but that is a $15K speaker, so not really in my league.

Maybe I need to give Polk a look, it's not really a brand I've considered yet.
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Old 01-07-2022, 04:04 PM   #174
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Bump!

So I've caught the HiFi audio bug. I mostly blame Tidal and the Naim Uniti Atom, as after hearing them at my parents house, I really clued into how much different a high-quality source and system can make. It's funny to say, but it rekindled my love of music again, and it's become a nice family for us to bond over.

After constant YouTube watching and research, I pulled the trigger on a few used items, including a vintage Sansui 8080db Receiver and a Luxman PD 277 turntable. I'm really happy with them both, and dig the vintage warm sound and aesthetic.

One thing I really need to do is upgrade my speakers, as I currently have some hand-me-down home-theatre-focused Athena speakers that aren't bad, but clearly show their limits with music. Problem is I'm unsure of which way to go... do I buy new, or look for vintage speakers? And if vintage, which ones? I listen to mostly 60-90s rock/jazz/blues/pop and tend to like a warm inviting sound (I find most modern speakers too detailed/clinical).

Any suggestions? Budget really depends on what is available. If it's vintage, probably don't want to pay more than $2K, if its new probably max of $4K.

Some options I've considered:
Spendor/Harbeth BBC-type speakers
Klipsch Heritage line (Heresy IV?)
Dynaudio Evoke 20 / Heritage Special
Vintage JBL type speakers (too many different models for me to differentiate between)

The one caveat is that I need to place them relatively close to the wall (say a foot) so they can't be speakers that only sound good if placed in the middle of the room. They will be part of our living room, not some special audio room.
I recommend a visit to The Audio Room. They have a huge variety of speakers you can demo. I spent hours in their trying them out. I bet a set of Tannoys would be what you’re looking for.
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Old 01-07-2022, 06:36 PM   #175
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Indeed, I actually did spend a little time at The Audio Room testing out the Dynaudio Evoke speakers (that's what they recommended, and they did sound really nice with the Naim). It's definitely a great place. I didn't really bother with the Tannoys as they seemed way past my budget, but if they are really great, maybe I can upsell myself like I always tend to do.
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Old 01-07-2022, 07:07 PM   #176
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Bump!

Any suggestions? Budget really depends on what is available. If it's vintage, probably don't want to pay more than $2K, if its new probably max of $4K.

Some options I've considered:
Spendor/Harbeth BBC-type speakers
Klipsch Heritage line (Heresy IV?)
Dynaudio Evoke 20 / Heritage Special
Vintage JBL type speakers (too many different models for me to differentiate between)
I prefer the vintage route, not that the speakers are better but, like older cars, they have character. There were the UK "sound", the Japanese "sound", the Canadian "sound", the east coast USA "sound", and the west coast USA "sound". I suppose I always preferred the east coast sound of KLH, EPI, Reynolds, Genesis, Polk, Boston and Advent. Their engineers seemed to bounce from company-to-company so they are all similar. My one concession to the west coast sound is JBL. I love their older monitors. If you can find JBL monitors, buy them; you won't be disappointed. If you're shopping around, the model numbers start with a '4'.

I currently own the following vintage speakers:

a. Boston Acoustics A150 Series II, which I have owned since 1987. All the drivers still work; I've refoamed the woofers; and I've replaced the crossovers. I've looked after them since day one and they have criss-crossed the country with me on multiple moves. I will not part with them;

b. JBL 4301 monitor;

c. JBL 4401 monitor. I am amazed how much these have gone up in value. Really nice pairs are pushing $1000.00 on ebay. I bought mine from some local dude for under 200 about seven years ago;

d. EPI 100; and

e. Reynolds/Advance A2.

With the vintage speakers, you just have to assume that you will have to refoam the woofers and most likely have to replace the crossovers. If you buy from a local business like Turn it Up, they probably have done that work and their prices will reflect that.

Check out these JBL L110s:
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-speakers/cal...ion/1599777301

The above seller also has EPI 180, Polk Monitor 10, ESS PS5A, and Mission 762. All of these are excellent and the seller has refurbished them. But, the one desirable set he has - and I shouldn't be telling you because I should buy them - is a pair of JBL 4408 monitors. The EPI 180 would be my second choice.

If I ever see fit to replace my vintage speakers, I will replace them with pro audio speakers. For example, JBL 308 with sub-woofers.

Good luck in your search but know that only your ears will tell you which are the better speakers.
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Old 01-08-2022, 10:42 AM   #177
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Awesome insight, thanks!

Funny you show that link as I've come across that guy on Kijiji, and he always seems to have some interesting looking stuff, and it all seems to be fairly well priced considered the effort.

A few follow up questions:

1) Is there any rhyme or reason to the JBL speaker nomenclature? Ie. what's the difference between a 4301 and 4401? Also, sound wise do you find a big difference between the JBL monitors and the Loudspeakers?

2) Any thoughts on British/BBC-type speakers like Spendors or Harbeths? From what it sounds like they might be closer to the East Coast sound as well.
Ie. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...dId=1598600436 New versions of these are in the 6-8K range, but it sounds like they are not that different from the older models.

3) It also seems like Canada had (or perhaps still does) have a pretty good history with speakers, but you don't hear about them as much these days. How do Canadian speakers compare to the West coast" or "East Coast" sound?
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Old 01-08-2022, 12:30 PM   #178
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Awesome insight, thanks!

Funny you show that link as I've come across that guy on Kijiji, and he always seems to have some interesting looking stuff, and it all seems to be fairly well priced considered the effort.

A few follow up questions:

1) Is there any rhyme or reason to the JBL speaker nomenclature? Ie. what's the difference between a 4301 and 4401? Also, sound wise do you find a big difference between the JBL monitors and the Loudspeakers?

2) Any thoughts on British/BBC-type speakers like Spendors or Harbeths? From what it sounds like they might be closer to the East Coast sound as well.
Ie. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...dId=1598600436 New versions of these are in the 6-8K range, but it sounds like they are not that different from the older models.

3) It also seems like Canada had (or perhaps still does) have a pretty good history with speakers, but you don't hear about them as much these days. How do Canadian speakers compare to the West coast" or "East Coast" sound?
(1) 4301 has an 8" driver; the 4401 has a 6.5" driver. The 4301 is the studio version of the consumer L19 model. The 4401 is the studio version of the consumer L15. The 4401 is more highly regarded than the 4301 and is ideal for smaller rooms and was used as a near field monitor in studios. I use it in my office where I run sound out from the PC into a Pioneer receiver.

I set the 4301s up at work and they are connected to an Audiosource amp and a little tube preamp I bought off Amazon.

Yes, there is a difference in sound with the equivalent consumer speakers. The monitors are "neutral" and so their crossovers are different than their consumer counterparts. The monitors have high frequency tuning knobs as well. Otherwise, I do not know the methodology JBL used to name their monitors.

(2) I don't know enough about British speakers to make any recommendations. My only experience with them was with a Kef sub-woofer which worked fine for me. The difference between new and vintage is not so much the design philosophy but the components used to make the speaker. Drivers are better today and so are the capacitors in the crossovers.

(3) Canadian speaker manufacturers enjoyed a working relationship with the National Research Council and benefitted from the NRC's work with speaker technology. Therefore, Canadian speakers from the 80s and 90s are excellent. Again, I never owned any, so I comment on any particular brand, but I have been looking for some Mirage speakers. Paradigm, PSB, and Energy were the other major speaker brands I can remember back then. I think they had their own sound, distinct from west or east coast.
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Old 01-08-2022, 12:36 PM   #179
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I liked Mirage and Paradigm back in the 90's, they sounded nice. Energy were similar to Klipsch at the time from what I remember, not very warm.
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Old 02-20-2022, 09:59 PM   #180
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I liked Mirage and Paradigm back in the 90's, they sounded nice. Energy were similar to Klipsch at the time from what I remember, not very warm.
I currently rock Mirage driven by a NAD214 and I can never get enough of that sound. So nice
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