[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I must be missing something... why does the event centre suddenly become much less expensive to build if built at Fire Park, Marlborough Mall, or on the Tsuut'ina reserve? Or why would the Tsuut'ina First Nation give CSEC a better deal than the City has offered? I don't really understand the logic behind any of these proposed alternative locations.

It’s called grasping at straws.

[Calgary '89]

Guys how's this even a debate? Calgary has a massive geographical footprint, so large that people in the SE probably don't even know anyone in the NW and vice-versa.

If you want a huge gathering space you have to keep it central and it HAS to have mass transit connected. Lets also remember the city is dying to increase their downtown tax revenue so they don't have to keep on stiffing homeowners everywhere else.

With or without the Flames the City of Calgary needs to bring a big project downtown and get some money injected back into the area before it goes all Detroit on them.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by dino7c

"the city should not give billionaires a dime! also, don't you dare build it more than 10 mins from my doorstep or else!"

people said the balzac mall would be a ghost town when it was built...now you can't find parking on a weekend

Did people say that about Balzac? I always assumed it would be busy. Mills malls in the US are always packed.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Did people say that about Balzac? I always assumed it would be busy. Mills malls in the US are always packed.

Really? I honestly thought they were dying and losing their good tenants. Are there new ones being built?

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Really? I honestly thought they were dying and losing their good tenants. Are there new ones being built?

Bass Pro Shops is always packed.

Way more packed than Cabela's at Deerfoot City.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Bass Pro Shops is always packed.

Way more packed than Cabela's at Deerfoot City.

Not talking about Balzac but the Mills malls in the US. I have only been in one in the last several years and it was trending in the wrong direction.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Kipper lived in Balzac and he made it to the games, you guys could manage the other way around!

Kiprusoff? Weren't the players always talking about how he lived down in the Okotoks/DeWinton area? I think I even saw a piece on him after he retired, fishing down there and talking about he liked the area.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Not talking about Balzac but the Mills malls in the US. I have only been in one in the last several years and it was trending in the wrong direction.

Perhaps one experience isn't quite enough to indicate a trend?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Perhaps one experience isn't quite enough to indicate a trend?

You’re right. I’m sure if I came back the following week all those empty spaces would have tenants and the quality of the other stores and foot traffic would be entirely different.

Pretty sure my experience is indicative of the decline of the supersized suburban mall in the US. There is no shortage of data that supports this.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You’re right. I’m sure if I came back the following week all those empty spaces would have tenants and the quality of the other stores and foot traffic would be entirely different.

Pretty sure my experience is indicative of the decline of the supersized suburban mall in the US. There is no shortage of data that supports this.

Outlet malls on the outskirts of cities have WAY outperformed suburban malls and downtown retail both before covid-19 and during the pandemic. That isn't to say tons of new ones will be going up next year, but they've been better than every retail asset class except grocery anchored strip malls.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Outlet malls on the outskirts of cities have WAY outperformed suburban malls and downtown retail both before covid-19 and during the pandemic. That isn't to say tons of new ones will be going up next year, but they've been better than every retail asset class except grocery anchored strip malls.

I believe this, insofar as outlet malls atleast where I live are quite a ways out of town, cheap land, predominantly outdoor shopping spaces where designer brands dump their out of style merchandise at discount. And they do seem to do well.

The Mills malls IMo weren’t intended as outlet malls. They were just supersized suburban malls but their decline has led to a variety of weird stores moving in to fill up the space. I’d be surprised if any malls of this concept get built again.

Maybe the Balzac one is a bit of a hybrid since there are no typical outlet malls in Calgary that I can think of. It’s one of the last Mills malls ever built I believe.

[Wormius]

What is a “mills” mall exactly? Does something distinguish it from any other mall?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Wormius

What is a “mills” mall exactly? Does something distinguish it from any other mall?

Yeah, I'm confused by that as well. Strange Brew is in the US, maybe they have such a fascination with malls down there that there's a difference in mega/outlet malls?

It may be called Cross Iron Mills and there may be a thing called a "Mill mall", but in our world I'm pretty sure everyone and their dog saw Cross Iron as an outlet mall.

[Wormius]

Yeah. if I go to Cross Iron, it’s the same, to me, as Market Mall, Chinook, or Sunridge.

[jayswin]

Google says that a Mill Mall is

A Mills property is a combination of traditional mall, outlet center, big box retailer, and entertainment use.

I guess I can kind of see that. Not sure how that would be any more or less successful than an outlet mall. I feel like individual city specifics and the quality of said mall would have more to do with it. But I'm also out of my depth on this subject.

For example in Calgary we don't have a line-up of outside the city mega malls competing like you do in the US, so I figure the "type" of mega mall factors in a lot less to the success when there is....one. And Cross Iron seems packed all the time when I'm up there.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Yeah, I'm confused by that as well. Strange Brew is in the US, maybe they have such a fascination with malls down there that there's a difference in mega/outlet malls?

It may be called Cross Iron Mills and there may be a thing called a "Mill mall", but in our world I'm pretty sure everyone and their dog saw Cross Iron as an outlet mall.

LOL. Calgarians don’t love shopping malls? Funny how you see things in terms of “our world” and “Americans” “they have such a fascination”.

Mills was a brand of mall built by Mills Corporation in many major cities. Grapevine Mills, Katy Mills, Arizona Mills etc. A supersized suburban mall which I do believe is different than an “outlet mall”. But Balzac is kind of both I guess.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Google says that a Mill Mall is



I guess I can kind of see that. Not sure how that would be any more or less successful than an outlet mall. I feel like individual city specifics and the quality of said mall would have more to do with it. But I'm also out of my depth on this subject.

For example in Calgary we don't have a line-up of outside the city mega malls competing like you do in the US, so I figure the "type" of mega mall factors in a lot less to the success when there is....one. And Cross Iron seems packed all the time when I'm up there.

Sounds like you spend a lot of time at that mall, you must have some “American” in your blood.

[jayswin]

That was weird. Just meant that clearly there's a huge market for outskirt/outlet style malls in the US where as we don't really have a lot of them, hence Calgary having one for 1.5mil people.

[cam_wmh]

It'd be sweet if they built one of those malls, -- and I get it, I'm dreaming, around the Springbank Airport.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by jayswin

That was weird. Just meant that clearly there's a huge market for outskirt/outlet style malls in the US where as we don't really have a lot of them, hence Calgary having one for 1.5mil people.

I don’t think there’s this big difference that you believe there is.