Guns. Lots of Guns.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Is this projection on your part?



I've never understood why people that are in favour of harsher gun restrictions seem to be okay with hunting but not range shooting. What's the difference? If you believe that I am a risk to society because I own a firearm, why do I pose less danger to society if I use it to hunt rather than to go to a range to shoot?

And range shooting and firearm control is integral to safe and ethical hunting. Handling and using your firearms on a regular basis maintains proficiency and familiarity, making you a safer user. It also maintains your skill and accuracy by remaining familiar with recoil and sighting and knowing your accuracy at ranges. Every one of my game hunting take downs has been one shot with kills within seconds. I made a deal with myself when I started that it was important to me (because it is hard to kill living things, there's no way around that) to ensure I would never make an animal suffer. In order to do this, and the fact your hunting season may only result in 1-3 actual shots on animals, you need to put many more downrange. You can't be proficient doing things a couple times a year with 9+ months off between them

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Aleks

And range shooting and firearm control is integral to safe and ethical hunting. Handling and using your firearms on a regular basis maintains proficiency and familiarity, making you a safer user. It also maintains your skill and accuracy by remaining familiar with recoil and sighting and knowing your accuracy at ranges. Every one of my game hunting take downs has been one shot with kills within seconds. I made a deal with myself when I started that it was important to me (because it is hard to kill living things, there's no way around that) to ensure I would never make an animal suffer. In order to do this, and the fact your hunting season may only result in 1-3 actual shots on animals, you need to put many more downrange. You can't be proficient doing things a couple times a year with 9+ months off between them

I think butchering your own meat in general helps to give true respect to the animals that you consume. I also seemed to find that if you butcher your own food, you suddenly realize that you want to use everything up and waste as little as possible (ie: consumption of innards and other "weird stuff").

I grew up around farms and whatnot and I started as a child learning how to gut fish when I went fishing with my father. I've also killed and plucked chickens and I once also was tasked with killing a pig old school style for a large banquet when I was working with a group of natives in Asia (Pig tied down and I had to hit the heart with a 5-6 inch long blade). Blood is surprisingly hot. I even went bird hunting with natives using an air gun, but we didn't find anything to try to shoot, so they had me hunting down escaped chickens as a form of entertainment for them.

I wanted to try hunting ever since I was a kid and I did have some offers to take me deer hunting, but the stars never aligned and my mom didn't want me doing that. I was aiming to do this now that I'm out of the home, but I think the final nail in the coffin for this activity was when one of our clients was mauled by a Grizzly while hunting. I really don't need certain table talk with my wife and mom about the risks that with never really materialize and they will over blow with subjective BS made up misinformation.

I've never fired a real gun. Paintball, BB, airsoft etc. is not the same no matter how much my wife and mom say it is. I've even participated in tactical war games with police, movie extras, former military, gun nuts etc. in Asia. Quite fun, but I've always seemingly leaned more towards the long guns in the same way I also enjoy archery.

I'd love to try to fire a real gun, but I'd also like to do it with people I enjoy the company of. I also don't feel the need to just go out there on my own and get a firearms license or go to a gun range. Shooting prairie dogs and whatnot seems like a crap ton of fun and it seems like something I'd be willing to get a gun license just to try out with a few buddies), but again... too much disapproving perspectives from wife and mom if I decided to just do on my own or with people they don't know. I'm thinking I should convince more of my buddies to find an outlet and tinker around with this stuff just once or twice for a bachelor party or just some garden variety guys weekend or something. At least I won't have to deal with the gun commentary alone.

[corporatejay]

As someone who doesn't hunt (but would like to) and doesn't own a gun and is generally okay with people owning guns, would people object to only allowing "action" guns and banning all semi-automatic weapons for personal use?

What would be the downside to not allowing you to hunt with a semi automatic but requiring you to use lever or bolt action only?

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

As someone who doesn't hunt (but would like to) and doesn't own a gun and is generally okay with people owning guns, would people object to only allowing "action" guns and banning all semi-automatic weapons for personal use?

What would be the downside to not allowing you to hunt with a semi automatic but requiring you to use lever or bolt action only?

Why does semi-auto concern you? Many proficient shooters can equal or surpass the firing rate of a semi-auto , with a lever or pump action rifle or shotgun.
I use bolt action and lever actions in my hunting rifles and my shotgun is a semi-auto.
I also own a semi-auto SKS which is only for target shooting however it does not have the rate of fire that say a 9mm semi -auto handgun has.

[RubberDuck]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

As someone who doesn't hunt (but would like to) and doesn't own a gun and is generally okay with people owning guns, would people object to only allowing "action" guns and banning all semi-automatic weapons for personal use?

What would be the downside to not allowing you to hunt with a semi automatic but requiring you to use lever or bolt action only?

I think recoil is one downside. In most cases a bolt action will have much more recoil than a semi-auto in something of the same caliber. If you've never fired a bolt action, recoil can be painful with some larger calibres.

A bolt action has an accuracy advantage but at shorter ranges, someone with fear of recoil might be less accurate than someone with a semi-auto that they are comfortable with.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I think butchering your own meat in general helps to give true respect to the animals that you consume. I also seemed to find that if you butcher your own food, you suddenly realize that you want to use everything up and waste as little as possible (ie: consumption of innards and other "weird stuff").



I grew up around farms and whatnot and I started as a child learning how to gut fish when I went fishing with my father. I've also killed and plucked chickens and I once also was tasked with killing a pig old school style for a large banquet when I was working with a group of natives in Asia (Pig tied down and I had to hit the heart with a 5-6 inch long blade). Blood is surprisingly hot. I even went bird hunting with natives using an air gun, but we didn't find anything to try to shoot, so they had me hunting down escaped chickens as a form of entertainment for them.



I wanted to try hunting ever since I was a kid and I did have some offers to take me deer hunting, but the stars never aligned and my mom didn't want me doing that. I was aiming to do this now that I'm out of the home, but I think the final nail in the coffin for this activity was when one of our clients was mauled by a Grizzly while hunting. I really don't need certain table talk with my wife and mom about the risks that with never really materialize and they will over blow with subjective BS made up misinformation.



I've never fired a real gun. Paintball, BB, airsoft etc. is not the same no matter how much my wife and mom say it is. I've even participated in tactical war games with police, movie extras, former military, gun nuts etc. in Asia. Quite fun, but I've always seemingly leaned more towards the long guns in the same way I also enjoy archery.



I'd love to try to fire a real gun, but I'd also like to do it with people I enjoy the company of. I also don't feel the need to just go out there on my own and get a firearms license or go to a gun range. Shooting prairie dogs and whatnot seems like a crap ton of fun and it seems like something I'd be willing to get a gun license just to try out with a few buddies), but again... too much disapproving perspectives from wife and mom if I decided to just do on my own or with people they don't know. I'm thinking I should convince more of my buddies to find an outlet and tinker around with this stuff just once or twice for a bachelor party or just some garden variety guys weekend or something. At least I won't have to deal with the gun commentary alone.

Yah I butcher all of my own, grinding, prep and the works. The last elk I did took 6 hours between the two of us. I also don't trophy hunt, it's for meat and that's it. The butchering isn't just for the experience, it's for the cost and practicality as well, it's expensive to butcher meat, and it's expensive to hunt, so when you actually get an animal (like a deer, which is small) it's just an impractical amount to pay for the output. I prefer to try and take elk only because it's a worthwhile amount of meat for the effort, output and $$.

Some fun shooting like pest control is definitely fun, but I take that like fishing, I don't equate the same degree of self awareness and such to very small animals like rodents and fish. Plus if it serves a purpose (like damage control) it's not just wasteful killing which I don't agree with. I have trouble thinking of predator control in hunting areas sometimes too, because wolves and cougars are beautiful, but they are very unwanted for the most part and cause lots of problems. Coyotes try to #### up my dogs all the time so I hate them.

I'm usually always open to introducing people to firearms, so feel free to reach out and if I can or have the ability to I'm happy to help out.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by RubberDuck

I think recoil is one downside. In most cases a bolt action will have much more recoil than a semi-auto in something of the same caliber. If you've never fired a bolt action, recoil can be painful with some larger calibres.



A bolt action has an accuracy advantage but at shorter ranges, someone with fear of recoil might be less accurate than someone with a semi-auto that they are comfortable with.

This is something that is hard to describe to non shooters, the difference in "sensation" between shooting a semi and a bolt between two of the same calibers is remarkable. Of course it's also a factor of the mass of the firearm and the recoil pad in place as well but bolts put all of that rearward energy though the frame to your shoulder.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Aleks

This is something that is hard to describe to non shooters, the difference in "sensation" between shooting a semi and a bolt between two of the same calibers is remarkable. Of course it's also a factor of the mass of the firearm and the recoil pad in place as well but bolts put all of that rearward energy though the frame to your shoulder.

And also your forehead via the scope! Learned that one the hard way as a kid.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

And also your forehead via the scope! Learned that one the hard way as a kid.

Haha, as much as nobody wants to admit it, everyone's scoped their orbit at least once . I have a 7mm Rem Mag that weighs in at 5.5lbs, that thing kissed my head the first time I shot it

[CaptainCrunch]

I was always a better shooter with a Bolt Action then a semi auto, I think it was probably psychological more then anything, but even though I could lever the rounds in a hurry, it forced me to think about my breathing and aiming process.


Though when I was in the military I loved the FNC1A1, it was heavy to carry, but easy to maintain, used a 7.62 round. Was nearly indestructible unless you did something stupid. Took about 5 minutes to clean, and even though it had the recoil from hell, I was pretty accurate with it.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I was always a better shooter with a Bolt Action then a semi auto, I think it was probably psychological more then anything, but even though I could lever the rounds in a hurry, it forced me to think about my breathing and aiming process.


Though when I was in the military I loved the FNC1A1, it was heavy to carry, but easy to maintain, used a 7.62 round. Was nearly indestructible unless you did something stupid. Took about 5 minutes to clean, and even though it had the recoil from hell, I was pretty accurate with it.

When I was a cadet at camp Vernon in the 80’s we used to shoot the FN’s. Dismantle, clean ,then shoot them down range, and we were 14 years old. Great times as a Calgary Highlander cadet.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by captaincrunch

i was always a better shooter with a bolt action then a semi auto, i think it was probably psychological more then anything, but even though i could lever the rounds in a hurry, it forced me to think about my breathing and aiming process.


Though when i was in the military i loved the fnc1a1, it was heavy to carry, but easy to maintain, used a 7.62 round. Was nearly indestructible unless you did something stupid. Took about 5 minutes to clean, and even though it had the recoil from hell, i was pretty accurate with it.

dp

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I was always a better shooter with a Bolt Action then a semi auto, I think it was probably psychological more then anything, but even though I could lever the rounds in a hurry, it forced me to think about my breathing and aiming process.


Though when I was in the military I loved the FNC1A1, it was heavy to carry, but easy to maintain, used a 7.62 round. Was nearly indestructible unless you did something stupid. Took about 5 minutes to clean, and even though it had the recoil from hell, I was pretty accurate with it.

It's definitely got more of a process feel to it! It's interesting you say that about the 7.62, in an SKS the gas actuated action soaks up a ton of the recoil from that round. That FN is a thing of beauty. You can still buy old L1A1s

[CaptainCrunch]

The FN was a dream of a rifle in a lot of ways for military use, though at the time it didn't have auto or burst. But those would be fairly useless with that kind of rifle.


While it was heavy to carry, and it did feel a bit unwieldy because of its length. The benefit was the larger high velocity round. Basically good luck hiding from it, because chances are that round was going to go through a car to get you.


People that use it are really split into really distinct classes. Those that were really accurate with it, and those who could never get the handle of the idiosyncrasies of how to fire it.


It certainly wasn't a luxury weapon. It used an old school iron site. It punished you if you didn't put it properly into your shoulder, you sucked if you didn't control your breathing when you fired it.


Also it wasn't a good weapon for short people. Or people with short arms. It really was a weapon designed to fire from a prone or kneeling position as well.


The C2 was issued in my time of one per squad, came with a bipod and you could if I remember fire it in single, burst or auto mode. But it was magazine fed and was generally used as a suppression weapon. That thing was not a fun weapon to fire, and usually after you unleashed the first round you peppered the sky and would probably shoot down a low flying plane by mistake.

[btimbit]

^I recall reading that at the time, a majority of the guys would have preferred to keep the Bren than adopt the C2

[CaptainCrunch]

And then there was the SMG that we used, that was practically a WW1 piece. Really inaccurate with an ironically dangerous safety and a firing mechanism that wanted to kill you more then the enemy.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The FN was a dream of a rifle in a lot of ways for military use, though at the time it didn't have auto or burst. But those would be fairly useless with that kind of rifle.


While it was heavy to carry, and it did feel a bit unwieldy because of its length. The benefit was the larger high velocity round. Basically good luck hiding from it, because chances are that round was going to go through a car to get you.


People that use it are really split into really distinct classes. Those that were really accurate with it, and those who could never get the handle of the idiosyncrasies of how to fire it.


It certainly wasn't a luxury weapon. It used an old school iron site. It punished you if you didn't put it properly into your shoulder, you sucked if you didn't control your breathing when you fired it.


Also it wasn't a good weapon for short people. Or people with short arms. It really was a weapon designed to fire from a prone or kneeling position as well.


The C2 was issued in my time of one per squad, came with a bipod and you could if I remember fire it in single, burst or auto mode. But it was magazine fed and was generally used as a suppression weapon. That thing was not a fun weapon to fire, and usually after you unleashed the first round you peppered the sky and would probably shoot down a low flying plane by mistake.

The modern battlefield also passed the C1 by, you just didn't need a weapon that could reach out and kill you from 1000M any more.

Also, you missed the biggest problem with the C2:

Spoiler!

F that S

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And then there was the SMG that we used, that was practically a WW1 piece. Really inaccurate with an ironically dangerous safety and a firing mechanism that wanted to kill you more then the enemy.

The real reason Storm Troopers couldn't hit anything.

[CaptainCrunch]

Yeah, fair enough on both. But there was something comforting with the FN of sitting on a range hitting a target that far away dead center. Not likely to make a difference in a modern battlefield. But there was also a comfort of being able to hit someone in hiding.


I was there when they started transitioning over to the C7 and it just wasn't the same thing. There were nice features, but when you go from something like the C1A1 to the C7 it was like going from a manly weapon to a toy.


And yeah carrying a ton of ammo for the C2 just sucked.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah, fair enough on both. But there was something comforting with the FN of sitting on a range hitting a target that far away dead center. Not likely to make a difference in a modern battlefield. But there was also a comfort of being able to hit someone in hiding.


I was there when they started transitioning over to the C7 and it just wasn't the same thing. There were nice features, but when you go from something like the C1A1 to the C7 it was like going from a manly weapon to a toy.


And yeah carrying a ton of ammo for the C2 just sucked.

When you compare the use of the C1/SMG vs C7/C8 it makes way more sense to have C7 & C8.

Remember the rumour that the plastic mags were designed to be disposable on the battlefield.

I to was in for the C1 to C7 conversion. All things considered C7/C8 is a far better option than the C1/SMG.

The C9 vs C2 isn't even close.