Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It gets worse when you look at what other teams do with their top picks. Sam Reinhart struggled just like Bennett has, but Buffalo then stapled him to players better than him - and I think in no small part thanks that decision, Reinhart started hitting his stride and started producing more.

It's not Sam Bennett's fault that Treliving has royally screwed the pooch on building the bottom 6. Nor was it Sam Bennett's fault that Treliving signed Glen Gulutzan as the head coach. I'd argue, prior to Derek Ryan last year - Sam Bennett has been our best player in the bottom 6 since he arrived in that spot. That's not how you successfully develop young players - and it's not like we have a long history of amazing success developing players at the AHL or NHL level, so the blind faith in blaming the player and praising the team seems misguided to me.

I'm not saying Bennett would have been the 90 point player that we all envisioned on day 1, but the mixture of Glen Gulutzan being an absolutely horrific NHL head coach, and Treliving's inability to build a bottom 6 has hurt Sam's development significantly. He is what he is today - which is a 3rd line player who could still one day work his way up a roster, but it's best to just accept him as that 3rd line player who shows up for big games - and that's not a bad thing. Stop looking for faults in his game, because perfect players don't exist on 3rd lines. He has his ups and downs, but there are plenty of positives - just maybe not as many as we would have liked to start this season, but that same view exists across the entire roster, or at least it should - as it has not been a stellar start to the year.

Pay much attention to the Flames bottom 6 last year? How has Treliving 'royally screwed the pooch' and who has consistently done a better job?

I would say the Flames bottom 6 today is better than it has been for at least a decade. If you're going to point to Treliving first 2-4 years and say how brutal they were, well it takes time to build your roster.

Be better man.

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It gets worse when you look at what other teams do with their top picks. Sam Reinhart struggled just like Bennett has, but Buffalo then stapled him to players better than him - and I think in no small part thanks that decision, Reinhart started hitting his stride and started producing more.

It's not Sam Bennett's fault that Treliving has royally screwed the pooch on building the bottom 6. Nor was it Sam Bennett's fault that Treliving signed Glen Gulutzan as the head coach. I'd argue, prior to Derek Ryan last year - Sam Bennett has been our best player in the bottom 6 since he arrived in that spot. That's not how you successfully develop young players - and it's not like we have a long history of amazing success developing players at the AHL or NHL level, so the blind faith in blaming the player and praising the team seems misguided to me.

I'm not saying Bennett would have been the 90 point player that we all envisioned on day 1, but the mixture of Glen Gulutzan being an absolutely horrific NHL head coach, and Treliving's inability to build a bottom 6 has hurt Sam's development significantly. He is what he is today - which is a 3rd line player who could still one day work his way up a roster, but it's best to just accept him as that 3rd line player who shows up for big games - and that's not a bad thing. Stop looking for faults in his game, because perfect players don't exist on 3rd lines. He has his ups and downs, but there are plenty of positives - just maybe not as many as we would have liked to start this season, but that same view exists across the entire roster, or at least it should - as it has not been a stellar start to the year.

This post has me thinking, what are good examples of players who spend several years in the bottom six and grow into top six players? Stats wise, I seem to recall Langkow going from a high 20's/low 30's points per year player in his first 4 years, and eventually growing into a pretty consistent 50-60 point player - but I don't really know what sort of development path he took. He was taken 5th overall in his draft, so was he considered a disappointment in his earlier years? Backlund definitely took a few years to get going as well, and I think people are pretty happy with how he's turned out. But did either of them break out while still playing on the 3rd line?

The main player that comes to mind as someone who was still able to establish themselves as a top 6 player stuck on the 3rd line is Jordan Staal - being stuck behind Crosby and Malkin. But he was putting up 40-50 points from the 3rd line pretty consistently from the start, and he never really grew much past that.

So does Bennett need extended time in the top 6 to prove that he can be a top 6 player? The issue is that he is clearly stuck behind better players at both left wing and centre - it would be easier if he (or say, Tkachuk) could switch over to right wing so that Frolik could be bumped down. As is, it's a costly experiment for him to displace any of Gaudreau/Monahan/Tkachuk/Backlund/Lindholm down to the 3rd line. But if there is potential to unlock top-6 Bennett, it could be worth seeing if Backlund or Lindholm can carry a 3rd line by themselves.

[mrdonkey]

No more Bennett in the top 6 please. We’ve seen what happens and it ain’t pretty.

At this point he just is what he is: a bottom 6 grinder who may be at his best come playoffs.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by delayedreflex

This post has me thinking, what are good examples of players who spend several years in the bottom six and grow into top six players?.

A few names that come to mind (limited opportunity, explode when that arrives) would be William Karlsson, Jonathan Marchessault, Craig Conroy, Andrew Ladd, Teuvo Teravainen Martin St. Louis.

Pretty much every single one of those guys needed to change teams though. It seems once you've been typecast on a team it's tough to have upward movement in terms of role.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

No more Bennett in the top 6 please. We’ve seen what happens and it ain’t pretty.

At this point he just is what he is: a bottom 6 grinder who may be at his best come playoffs.

This is pretty much the attitude that sees mismanaged players switch teams and fluorish

As many have repeatedly pointed out, he has not had any material amount of time in the top six since his rookie year

Having said that, if I was This Post Is No Good , I would have simply thanked your post

[Ped]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

A few names that come to mind (limited opportunity, explode when that arrives) would be William Karlsson, Jonathan Marchessault, Craig Conroy, Andrew Ladd, Teuvo Teravainen Martin St. Louis.

Pretty much every single one of those guys needed to change teams though. It seems once you've been typecast on a team it's tough to have upward movement in terms of role.

I don't think Teravainen fits in that group. he was buried behind the all-stars in Chicago but no thought he was going to be bottom six. He was traded just so they could dump Bickell and his progress has been steady.

[FlamesAddiction]

Kyle Turris maybe?

But again, he had to switch teams for him to pick it up.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

A few names that come to mind (limited opportunity, explode when that arrives) would be William Karlsson, Jonathan Marchessault, Craig Conroy, Andrew Ladd, Teuvo Teravainen Martin St. Louis.

Pretty much every single one of those guys needed to change teams though. It seems once you've been typecast on a team it's tough to have upward movement in terms of role.

Possibly Dylan Strome, Max Domi?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

A few names that come to mind (limited opportunity, explode when that arrives) would be William Karlsson, Jonathan Marchessault, Craig Conroy, Andrew Ladd, Teuvo Teravainen Martin St. Louis.

Pretty much every single one of those guys needed to change teams though. It seems once you've been typecast on a team it's tough to have upward movement in terms of role.

Martin St Louis was 19 years ago at this point. Completely different era. Why stop there? You should consider adding Cam Neely to your list.

The Flames have been able to develop several players in and around the exact same time Sam Bennett joined the team. Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuck, Anderson, kylington, Mangiapane, Rittich, and I'll bet Valamaki is next. Dube not far behind.

What makes Sam special? This idea that the Flames are holding his head below the water is ridiculous. Of course they want Bennett to succeed. Otherwise he would be long gone by now.

[Flash Walken]

Through the quarter mark of this season, the Sam Bennett saga continues, and it's definitely not supportive of the 'or is he awesome' edited segment of this thread title.

This year through 19 games, Bennett has 3g, 2a, 10 minors penalties and 1 power play point. He's shooting 9.1% and playing 13:18 per game.

This time last year, he'd played 18 games, 2g, 2a, 5 minors and 0 pp points. He shot 6.5% and was playing 12:32 per game.

He's on pace for 21 points this year. 13 goals.

Compared to last year, he has taken TWICE AS MANY minor penalties this year, and is 6th in the entire NHL in that capacity so far this year.

Without James Neal, he's gotten a bump in icetime, which has not translated to any more success.

The Flames record when Bennett plays more than 13 minutes per game this year: 4 wins 7 losses.

The record when he plays less than 13 minutes? 5-2

This is his 5th pro year, Draft+6, and he's going to score between 9-13 goals without a lot of help.

Looks to me like he's bottomed out and the Flames are holding a 2.25 million dollar bag.

[NewFan]

For me Bennett needs to play lots to be effective player. He tries to much in his short time but it doesn't work for him. I would keep him with Backlund or with Monahan to play more that he doesn't need to think too much. Having regular role with regular partner and time will help him.

[Lil Pedro]

Has the tools, but no tool box. Guy has the hockey IQ of a pee-wee player. Bennett just isn't an effective NHLer as there is nothing in his game that he does well.

[CliffFletcher]

Sorry, I don't buy the narrative that coaches have mishandled Bennett. If anyone mishandled him, it was management keeping him up in the NHL instead of giving him a year or two of seasoning in the AHL.

The linemates complaint is delusional. The only reason he's gotten chance after chance in the top 6 in the last couple seasons is because of his draft pedigree. His play certainly hasn't warranted prime ice time. And despite coaches giving him many looks in a prominent role - more looks than he would have gotten if he was a 4th round pick - he has not seized the opportunity.

Bennett just isn't that great a hockey player, no matter who he plays with. He struggles to process the game at an NHL level, and doesn't have the raw skill to compensate for his lack of hockey IQ.

His game as a teenager didn't translate to the NHL. It happens. On the bright side, unlike guys like Griffin Reinhart and Michael Dal Colle, Bennett has enough jam in his game that he can be a role player in the NHL. Accept what he is and move on.

[Zulu29]

The problem with the argument of moving him to the top six is he’s literally done nothing to deserve it. Hasn’t been able to create anything on his own, he’s a liability for penalties and has no finish. He’s a crash and bang winger who is valuable in the playoffs. It is what it is.

[CN10]

He's been fairly bad to start this year, but a part of our disappointment in him as fans is due to his PPG performance in the playoffs (and ongoing high expectations due to where he was drafted) he was supposed to be that additional top six player we need. I think Bennett's best chance to bounce back would be by playing with the guys he had the most success with at the NHL level (Backlund + Frolik) on the third/checking line, which would also free up Tkachuk to be paired with Lindholm to make two actual scoring lines.

[Harry Lime]

Bennett reminds me a lot of Claude Lemieux. A polarizing player who takes penalties but plays hard. Once the playoffs begin, able to elevate his game to incredible levels.

Maybe if the team would get to the playoffs more often, and the rest of the team would play at a minimum average level during them, we can see Bennett shine for an extended period and people would love him.

As it is, I would ship him to a contender so that he could win a couple of Cups with a less bipolar team.

[Vinny01]

I am a big Bennett fan but it just doesn’t seem like he will ever take the next step in a Flames Jersey.

This team needs a shakeup trade and some legit top 6 forwards. Bennett shouldn’t be off limits in a package that can get that player

[N-E-B]

He is what he is at this point. I’ll be stunned if he takes a big step. I just don’t think he’ll ever get it together.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

He is what he is at this point. I’ll be stunned if he takes a big step. I just don’t think he’ll ever get it together.

He would be an outstanding Capital.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If anyone mishandled him, it was management keeping him up in the NHL instead of giving him a year or two of seasoning in the AHL.
.

The problem with that narrative is at the age of 19 Bennet had 18 goals (fifth for rookies) and 36 points (10th for rookies). Why would any management team send him to the AHL for a season or two after that year? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Personally I don't think GG helped his game but Sam's problem is his brain. Just can't think the game at the NHL level.