The decline of professional sports

[CliffFletcher]

Team owners don't want more people coming to the games. They want more money from attendance. Those are two different things.

All that stuff about tradition and community is nice. But live professional sports today is about providing an elite entertainment offering for corporate customers. Owners don't want average fans taking up valuable space that could be better served by providing a luxurious experience for big whales. Reducing the price of tickets to make the games affordable to families would run contrary to their whole business model of sucking hundreds an evening out of corporate sponsors and tier 1 fans.

Where they expect to get broad support is from television. But the digital entertainment world is changing so fast they're struggling to adapt. They do know few younger fans today will plant their ass on a couch for 3 hours and watch a game from start to finish (Bettman acknowledged as much in a recent interview). I expect we'll see game content chopped up into all kinds of smaller pieces with highlights, stats, and storylines woven into them.

[Puppet Guy]

I'd like to throw another economic angle at this - hockey's a horrible expensive sport to play, and I know lots of parents can't afford to enroll their kids. When junior doesn't play the game, his/her interest in watching it probably isn't great. Next generation isn't playing or watching and the numbers drop.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

All that stuff about tradition and community is nice. But live professional sports today is about providing an elite entertainment offering for corporate customers. Owners don't want average fans taking up valuable space that could be better served by providing a luxurious experience for big whales. Reducing the price of tickets to make the games affordable to families would run contrary to their whole business model of sucking hundreds an evening out of corporate sponsors and tier 1 fans.

That's sustainable now, but what happens when the next generation grows up with a lower interest in sports, and going to a Flames game is no longer all that impressive or enticing to corporate clients?

[Galakanokis]

I am a huge sports fan in general, love a lot of sports, playing, watching talking, the whole kit and caboodle. But neither of my kids are, my passion for sports has not been handed down. I can't pay them to sit down and watch a hockey game or football. Play sure but that's it.

But, as much as I love sports I rarely watch live and can easily lose interest even if i happen to have the time to watch. Going to a game in person is unheard of for me, once maybe twice a year for any event.It gets very tough to watch if you let the business of sports get in the way. I think that is it more than anything, it is hard to relate to the business of sports.

Hell, I once watched 4 hours of the IPL (cricket) because I couldn't find the remote. Of course I was drunk and high at the time but damn that was some fine sporting tv. When dudes leg fell off after making the catch and throw I lost my ####. Some fine edibles that night.

[pepper24]

Terrific thread idea. For NHL at least it starts with minor hockey being too expensive and exclusive.

Rep hockey is now being replaced with $40k per year CSSHL hockey. 5 year old kids have 6:30 am practices and older kids play at 10 pm.

Good athletes are playing other sports that are more affordable and more flexible. Minor hockey registration continues to decline.




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[troutman]

Now that I'm in my 50s I find it harder to get excited about the exploits of 20 year old athletes.

With more and more teams it is much harder to win a championship or build a consistent contender.

There are too many damn games.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

That's sustainable now, but what happens when the next generation grows up with a lower interest in sports, and going to a Flames game is no longer all that impressive or enticing to corporate clients?

That's a good question. As are the comments about the affordability of hockey. If substantially fewer kids play hockey, and few people watch it live, will there still be a strong corporate interest in NHL hockey as an elite entertainment and status experience going forward? Maybe not. But something else would have to take its place.

[Muta]

If ticket prices were halved, that'd be the ideal solution. I understand that millionaire athletes would make slightly less, but they'd still be able to afford the double (nitrate-infested) meat at Subway.

Also, the boat / yacht thing - I've never understood why anyone would buy a boat. They cost just as much (if not more) than a car, and you use it about 5% as much as you'd use a car.... maybe less. They have to be the most useless purchase ever. Why not just rent a boat? Makes so much more financial sense.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Muta

If ticket prices were halved, that'd be the ideal solution. I understand that millionaire athletes would make slightly less, but they'd still be able to afford the double (nitrate-infested) meat at Subway.

Also, the boat / yacht thing - I've never understood why anyone would buy a boat. They cost just as much (if not more) than a car, and you use it about 5% as much as you'd use a car.... maybe less. They have to be the most useless purchase ever. Why not just rent a boat? Makes so much more financial sense.

Because getting mouthified at sea is different than on land.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That's a good question. As are the comments about the affordability of hockey. If substantially fewer kids play hockey, and few people watch it live, will there still be a strong corporate interest in NHL hockey as an elite entertainment and status experience going forward? Maybe not. But something else would have to take its place.

I mean the main thing the NHL has going for it in Canada is that it's the only game in town during the cold months. That part isn't likely to change.

[tvp2003]

I've read a couple of articles on the Players Tribune about video gaming and e-sports (i.e. competition between players) becoming a huge industry. It makes sense given the current generation that is tethered to their smart phone -- is it that surprising to see sports on the decline and "e-sports" on the rise?

[Flamenspiel]

Interesting posts, from my point of view i find attending a Flames game way more interesting then watch it on TV. Still I wish they got rid of the TV timeouts and shortened the intermissions.

If its a TV event I will not commit more then 1-1.5 hours to it. I PVR it and then skip all the commercials and intermissions, I just have too much on the go as an adult to spend 3 hours on a TV event.

Surprisingly although I played youth soccer I did not watch it on TV, mostly because it was never on TV. Premiership games from Europe are now very watchable, its early in the morning while everyone else is sleeping in the house and more importantly its done in 1 hour 45 minutes max.

A hockey game should not be 3 hours, never-mind football and baseball's 3.5 to 4 hour borefests.

[Igottago]

The value per $ answer mentioned by a few people pretty much nails it. If I do want to watch a game, why would I spend hundreds of dollars for the seat, plus the cost of parking, food, alcohol, and having to deal with annoying drunks, washroom line ups etc. I can watch at home on a beautiful TV, with my choice of food and beverage, no washroom lineup, and no drunks. That's if I want to watch the game.

If I don't, or if the game is boring..I can switch to Netflix. There are numerous entertainment options at our fingertips. I also believe our general attention span is lower these days. Who can sit and give their full attention to a game these days without grabbing a phone, laptop, or some other diversion?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Muta

Also, the boat / yacht thing - I've never understood why anyone would buy a boat. They cost just as much (if not more) than a car, and you use it about 5% as much as you'd use a car.... maybe less. They have to be the most useless purchase ever. Why not just rent a boat? Makes so much more financial sense.

If you're buying a boat, you probably already have a car... or several.

The more money you have, the less utility the things you buy need to have.

[driveway]

I think this is a perceptual thing that isn't necessarily supported by the data. A quick google got me to this page:
https://howmuch.net/articles/sports-leagues-by-revenue

And this graphic:


These numbers are from 2015, but I don't believe there has actually been a significant decline in revenues since then. Attendance and ratings may be different, but with the advent of streaming services and less and less 'must-watch' television, networks are scrambling for advertisers and sports is one of the last bastions of 'you need to watch while it's happening.'

Also, the NHL - globally - is incredibly strong, beating out the top leagues in Germany, Spain, Italy, France, and Japan. In fact, if you combine the revenues of the Bundesliga and Nippon baseball, it comes out to exactly what the NHL made in 2015. Germany and Japan combined have a population base of 209 million people, and neither of those leagues have to face the kind of competition the NHL does in the NFL, NBA, and MLB.

[GirlySports]

or the world doesn't accept high prices for their sports like here. And in the world it's bascially just a sporting events, no entertainment.

You can get a Bundesliga season ticket (19 league games) in the 2nd bowl for less than $300.

The question is what is the tipping point for us Canadians or USians. What price is unacceptable?

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by driveway

I think this is a perceptual thing that isn't necessarily supported by the data. A quick google got me to this page:
https://howmuch.net/articles/sports-leagues-by-revenue

And this graphic:


These numbers are from 2015, but I don't believe there has actually been a significant decline in revenues since then. Attendance and ratings may be different, but with the advent of streaming services and less and less 'must-watch' television, networks are scrambling for advertisers and sports is one of the last bastions of 'you need to watch while it's happening.'
.

This statement is very off base. Well, for every sport but the NFL, who actually has enough viewers to make money off of advertising. Hockey in Canada alone also benefits in this area, but at a much smaller scale, because Canada is much smaller.

NHL, MLB, and NBA have had very large TV contracts for the last few years based entirely on the model of charging very expensive carriage fees. The most exterme example is the Dodgers getting 250 million a year when only a small percentage of their viewing area actually get the channel. But all over the US sporting landscape, you can find teams earning 9 figures/year tv deals based on viewership that is lower than a random Friends rerun in their home market. The teams got these deals by charging every tv subscriber in a huge market $6/month for their sports network when in some cases less than 1% of those people watch the games.

In many of the 100 million/year tv deals, the revenue is 99.9% carriage fees and advertising doesn't even cover the cost of production. This is the huge, giant, elephant in the room bubble that is going to burst as people cut the cord. If you follow what's happening with ESPN lately and how many subscribers they've lost, and how many layoffs they've made... The RSNs are all under that same model and a lot of them don't have a sugar daddy like Disney to bail them out.

The leagues haven't lost revenue yet, because the deals with leagues/teams are mostly not dependent on revenue. But as RSNs start to buckle or go under, and as tv contracts come up for renewal, the teams and leagues are going to be hurting, and hurting badly.

[GGG]

However you have twitter and Facebook waiting in the wings to monetize live events. Them entering the rights battle will change how sports is viewed.

Imagine being able to listen to anyone's play by play streaming on Facebook live. Don't like Jim Hughson, turn on Bingo. Hyper personalized experiences leaving the cable companies in the dust

[robaur]

To be honest, if I look at my social circle, people have more things to do....

People only have a certain amount of time.....now sports are competing against Netflix even....I think that's the simplest example.

Back in the day....people used to go home and the highlight of the night was to watch a hockey game or sports event....thats what my entire family got together for....

Now everyone just kind of does their own thing as most media is available on demand and a lot of people are now just OK with watching highlights and moving on....

It's a philosophical change to how we consume our media/entertainment.

[Peanut]

Too expensive, too many games (for the NHL, anyways), and too many other things to do.

I've turned down free tickets to the dome because it was too cold out and/or I just didn't want to put in the effort of getting down there, paying $15 for a beer (or whatever it is) and quite honestly be a little bit bored because the game is essentially meaningless and the dome atmosphere is mediocre. Playoffs are a different story, obviously. But a mid-season game in the middle of a cold snap? Nah.