[Rumour] Friedman: Devils/Coyotes are finalizing Hall trade

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Generally when you’re trying to improve your team you have to acquire players.

And if you’re philosophy is that Hall is trash and you want something better, then you’re going to have give up a lot more while hoping something better becomes available.

That’s just kind of the basics around how these things work.

Sometimes you just need to change the coach, chum

And sometimes expensive players don’t improve teams. That’s how things work too

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Hall is a first-overall, Hart-winning, born-and-raised Calgarian winger who grew up cheering for the Flames and is still in his prime.

Flames fans: “Eww, gross! No thank you!”

Who has injury issues, has played 82 games once in his career, is 28, makes $6M, upcoming UFA with an acquisition cost and needs a new contract and plays a position we dont really need to strengthen.

Taylor Hall is a good player and I'd love to have him. I just dont see where he fits and dont like the prospect of paying to acquire him or paying to retain him considering what we'd have to give up.

Theres a lot of negatives involved in Taylor Hall and not all of them have anything to do with him being a good player or not. He is. But theres more to it than that.

If the stars aligned and he'd be inexpensive to acquire and wouldnt throw our cap into absolute hell to retain and he slotted into the team nicely I'd love to have him but there has to be more to it than just:

"Oooh!! Shiny new toy!!"

[TOfan]

For the Hall naysayers, if it's not Hall then who should the Flames target? What better option is there either now or one that you can gaze into your crystal ball and say'thats the guy'?

Even last year when Stone went to Vegas, you could see Hall being available and the Flames having interest, for good reason. The Flames look to have 2-3 years ahead of them where they could step into the leagues elite. If they do nothing, just my opinion, they're a better than average team until Gio's play falls off and they have a Gaudreau leaving situation on their hands. Then they will have run out of time.

Face it, they might not have another opportunity to acquire a player of this caliber for a long while.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by blankall

You honestly need to watch him play. He is the guy generating the points. Not sure what your definition of game breaker is, but he's another consistent and legit offensive threat. He'd be right behind Gaudreau in the Flames lineup. The biggest issue with the Flames is that they can be shut down by shutting Gaudreau down. Hall would change all of that, as he's the type of player you send your top shut down guys against.

I have watched him play. Plenty. I even watched him make a lazy turnover in his own end earlier against us this year which directly lead to a Flames goal.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sometimes you just need to change the coach, chum

And sometimes expensive players don’t improve teams. That’s how things work too

No kidding. Which is why people want to acquire Hall because he’s a nearly point per game over his career and a Hart winner. Not because he’s expensive. You know that, chum

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Backlund all allow more goals against and chances against than Hall over the last 3 years.

I love how people thank a post without doing research. All those players have better career numbers in that category than Hall who without that MVP season is a huge negative career wise. Please show me this chances against stat. Some serious sheep mentality on some posters here.

[868904]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I have watched him play. Plenty. I even watched him make a lazy turnover in his own end earlier against us this year which directly lead to a Flames goal.

Well that settles it. Flames players never make lazy turnovers that lead to goals. Hall just wouldn’t fit in here. We only have perfect players who always play well especially when the team is struggling.

Sarcasm aside, I don’t think you can just look at players in certain situations and assume that’s how they are going to be. Granted it would be better if he was busting his balls and playing hard for a bad team, but you also have to project how he will be in a better situation. Hall was an MVP when the Devils were a decent team, he wouldn’t have won that if he was lazy and a turnover machine. It’s part of a managers job to project and assess how players play in different circumstances.

Hall has a history of playing poorly in and situations but he also has a history of playing well in a good situation. And since his best situation was with our current head coach and seeing as how the Flames are a decent team, I think it’s a reasonable gamble to acquire him.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sometimes you just need to change the coach, chum

And sometimes expensive players don’t improve teams. That’s how things work too

Pretty flimsy argument, guy.

Sometimes, most times, expensive players improve your team. You think the team, under Ward, is now good enough to compete for a cup?

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Pretty flimsy argument, guy.

Sometimes, most times, expensive players improve your team. You think the team, under Ward, is now good enough to compete for a cup?

Honestly, when the bottom line is Frolik-Czarnik-Mangiapane(or Bennett), I'm curious as to what rolling four lines will look like. Might be able to answer this in a weeks time.

Edit : Buddy.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by 868904

Well that settles it. Flames players never make lazy turnovers that lead to goals. Hall just wouldn’t fit in here. We only have perfect players who always play well especially when the team is struggling.

Yes, because adding another player full of turnovers is a fantastic idea! The fact he is often injured and doesn't fit position wise either is such a bonus! I can totally see why so many want him and we will be all so lucky in the future when most games he is sitting on IR making $10M a year. Great idea!!!

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Honestly, when the bottom line is Frolik-Czarnik-Mangiapane(or Bennett), I'm curious as to what rolling four lines will look like. Might be able to answer this in a weeks time.

Edit : Buddy.

Didn't the Avalanche give you a good idea of what this looks like?

[TheScorpion]

Ryan O'Reilly was a minus player for eight consecutive seasons before he was traded to St. Louis.

But if Taylor Hall's MVP is meaningless, I suppose O'Reilly's Selke, Conn Smythe, and Cup are too?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes, because adding another player full of turnovers is a fantastic idea! The fact he is often injured and doesn't fit position wise either is such a bonus! I can totally see why so many want him and we will be all so lucky in the future when most games he is sitting on IR making $10M a year. Great idea!!!

He would currently be 4th on the team in giveaways behind Tkachuk, Johnny, and Hanifin.

Looking back the past few seasons he’s actually right on line with those numbers for other high minute offensive players.

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I love how people thank a post without doing research. All those players have better career numbers in that category than Hall who without that MVP season is a huge negative career wise. Please show me this chances against stat. Some serious sheep mentality on some posters here.

Goals Against per 60 minutes (2016-2019)
Taylor Hall: 2.31
Matthew Tkachuk: 2.38
Mikael Backlund: 2.44
Johnny Gaudreau: 2.60
Sean Monahan: 2.68


Expected Goals Against per 60 minutes (2016-2019)
Taylor Hall: 2.14
Matthew Tkachuk: 2.20
Mikael Backlund: 2.20
Johnny Gaudreau: 2.32
Sean Monahan: 2.44


Did you think I just made that up? Funny that you'd call people out for not doing research while simultaneously being wrong about such an easy-to-research stat.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Goals Against per 60 minutes (2016-2019)
Taylor Hall: 2.31
Matthew Tkachuk: 2.38
Mikael Backlund: 2.44
Johnny Gaudreau: 2.60
Sean Monahan: 2.68


Expected Goals Against per 60 minutes (2016-2019)
Taylor Hall: 2.14
Matthew Tkachuk: 2.20
Mikael Backlund: 2.20
Johnny Gaudreau: 2.32
Sean Monahan: 2.44


Did you think I just made that up? Funny that you'd call people out for not doing research while simultaneously being wrong about such an easy-to-research stat.

Bahhhhhh

[TheScorpion]

It follows that the players who have the puck the most and play the most will give it away the most.

Nathan MacKinnon leads the Colorado Avalanche in giveaways. Connor McDavid leads the Oilers in giveaways by a mile. David Pastrnak leads the Bruins in giveaways by a mile. Sebastian Aho leads the Hurricanes. Jack Eichel leads the Sabres by a mile. I could go on.

In short, giveaways taken in isolation do not matter. Taylor Hall is a giveaway machine, but that just means he has possession of the puck a lot. He would be an instant difference maker on the Flames.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Goals Against per 60 minutes (2016-2019)
Taylor Hall: 2.31
Matthew Tkachuk: 2.38
Mikael Backlund: 2.44
Johnny Gaudreau: 2.60
Sean Monahan: 2.68


Expected Goals Against per 60 minutes (2016-2019)
Taylor Hall: 2.14
Matthew Tkachuk: 2.20
Mikael Backlund: 2.20
Johnny Gaudreau: 2.32
Sean Monahan: 2.44


Did you think I just made that up? Funny that you'd call people out for not doing research while simultaneously being wrong about such an easy-to-research stat.

You are cherry picking three years. Do it for their whole careers and come back. You are using one great year to skewer the stats. Nice try. Funny how many posters fall for that.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are cherry picking three years. Do it for their whole careers and come back. You are using one great year to skewer the stats. Nice try. Funny how many posters fall for that.

Kovaz specifically said the past 3 years... you aren’t a fan of “what have you done lately”?

Didn’t those flames all have career years last year? What the heck are you talking about?

[slcrocket]

Originally Posted by blankall

Hall has 536 points in 592 games while playing for absolute gong shows of teams. His career consists of more than just one good season.

Exactly, take it one step further - his points per game since 2010 (his draft year) exceeds that of Joe Thornton, Patrice Bergeron, Erik Karlsson, Eric Staal, Jakub Voracek, Jonathan Toews, Joe Pavelski, Brad Marchand, Tyler Seguin, Jamie Benn, Anze Kopitar, Blake Wheeler, and Phil Kessel over that same span.

But by all means, let's not trade this guy 1-for-1 for Dillon Dube. You guys blow my mind sometimes.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are cherry picking three years. Do it for their whole careers and come back. You are using one great year to skewer the stats. Nice try. Funny how many posters fall for that.

Funny how you fell for it by not including his MVP year .....