[News] Tij Iginla selected ninth overall by Seattle in WHL Draft

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Centers carry so much more value. You just look at how the Flames have coveted a guy like Mercer. If you stock your system with centers and don't have room for all of them they will fetch far more via trade than wingers down the road. If the Flames were picking 8th and took Iginla I wouldn't be upset about getting the player but I wouldn't be thrilled about the value at that pick as it's like taking a RB in the top 10 when some really good QB's, tackles, and edge rushers were available.

Not really - RBs don’t last very long, that’s why they’re perceived bad value (although I don’t know why - you’re getting a RBs best years at a capped rookie deal, more teams should draft them high and let someone else pay them their big contract)

Tij Iginla could easily play here 15 years+ and retire a Flame.

And while I agree with the need to add some elite young centres, let’s not pretend they don’t need to add elite young everything else.

So if the winger’s ceiling is Jarome Iginla (and it is) we take him. We’re not gonna stop sucking next year, or the year after that. Probably not even the year after that. We can add centres with other selections.

We took Tkachuk at six ahead of Clayton Keller, Tyson Jost, Michael McLeod and Logan Brown because he was better than all those guys despite playing a less premium position.

Unless we wanted to reach for Tage at six and wait until last year to be right about him, there were no centres remotely competitive with Matthew Tkachuk.

Are we really gonna take Konsta Helenius ahead of Tij Iginla because he plays centre?

I think not.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

how can one determine this is a leg up for Iggy Jr, when we don't know how the other top prospects were trained?

In many cases these kids have received the best coaching, training, and skill development available and from a very young age.

Because Iggy Sr. is one of the best ever at his position, which happens to be the same as his son plays (minus the side), and his influence would go beyond time at the rink.

The influence of one's immediate kin transcends that of a teacher, coach or trainer in a lot of ways. It would show tij how to think and carry himself in and outside of the rink from a guy who has had ample success and the right mentality to find sustained success at the highest level.

In that capacity, Tij would absolutely have a leg up in that he has the perfect person to model from a young age.

I don't see why that would be hard to grasp.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Centers carry so much more value. You just look at how the Flames have coveted a guy like Mercer. If you stock your system with centers and don't have room for all of them they will fetch far more via trade than wingers down the road. If the Flames were picking 8th and took Iginla I wouldn't be upset about getting the player but I wouldn't be thrilled about the value at that pick as it's like taking a RB in the top 10 when some really good QB's, tackles, and edge rushers were available.

...you switch to the NFL a lot in your analogies.

You're also repeating very surface level things now in two sports when it comes to position value. We all agree. You're also completely ignoring pedigree as the indicator it is for picking a player that will play in the NFL or NHL.

If a draft pick had a Father that played at the highest level, it's more of an indicator that pick has a chance of playing in the NFL or NHL than what position they play in junior or college.

If we want to win it all, we need top level skill at 10 positions...and we have 5+ openings to fill. Unfortunately we tried to make the playoffs this year until the players / play forced trades, so we're not in the top 5 of the draft where you can find a QB / WR or whoops I mean top C. So yeah we need to go BPA, Tij Iginla has the tangible asset value to be in our range as a scoring winger with the best pedigree we could ask for. Don't overthink it because you need a centre.

If you need a centre, go pick a 6ft guy with skating that needs work in the 2nd round. There are 1st line centres in every round.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Because Iggy Sr. is one of the best ever at his position, which happens to be the same as his son plays (minus the side), and his influence would go beyond time at the rink.

The influence of one's immediate kin transcends that of a teacher, coach or trainer in a lot of ways. It would show tij how to think and carry himself in and outside of the rink from a guy who has had ample success and the right mentality to find sustained success at the highest level.

In that capacity, Tij would absolutely have a leg up in that he has the perfect person to model from a young age.

I don't see why that would be hard to grasp.

Who did the other prospects have around them to mentor and coach them? Your premise is that Tij had an advantage. How can you say that if you don't know who the others had?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Not really - RBs don’t last very long, that’s why they’re perceived bad value (although I don’t know why - you’re getting a RBs best years at a capped rookie deal, more teams should draft them high and let someone else pay them their big contract)

Tij Iginla could easily play here 15 years+ and retire a Flame.

And while I agree with the need to add some elite young centres, let’s not pretend they don’t need to add elite young everything else.

So if the winger’s ceiling is Jarome Iginla (and it is) we take him. We’re not gonna stop sucking next year, or the year after that. Probably not even the year after that. We can add centres with other selections.

We took Tkachuk at six ahead of Clayton Keller, Tyson Jost, Michael McLeod and Logan Brown because he was better than all those guys despite playing a less premium position.

Unless we wanted to reach for Tage at six and wait until last year to be right about him, there were no centres remotely competitive with Matthew Tkachuk.

Are we really gonna take Konsta Helenius ahead of Tij Iginla because he plays centre?

I think not.

What if the take Helenius ahead of Tij because they think he's on par with Tij AND a centre.

Is the position the tie-breaker or the name on the back of the jersey?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

...you switch to the NFL a lot in your analogies.

You're also repeating very surface level things now in two sports when it comes to position value. We all agree. You're also completely ignoring pedigree as the indicator it is for picking a player that will play in the NFL or NHL.

If a draft pick had a Father that played at the highest level, it's more of an indicator that pick has a chance of playing in the NFL or NHL than what position they play in junior or college.

If we want to win it all, we need top level skill at 10 positions...and we have 5+ openings to fill. Unfortunately we tried to make the playoffs this year until the players / play forced trades, so we're not in the top 5 of the draft where you can find a QB / WR or whoops I mean top C. So yeah we need to go BPA, Tij Iginla has the tangible asset value to be in our range as a scoring winger with the best pedigree we could ask for. Don't overthink it because you need a centre.

If you need a centre, go pick a 6ft guy with skating that needs work in the 2nd round. There are 1st line centres in every round.

There are!?!?!

[Tbull8]

I’m just praying we can still snag Mercer or the 2024 1st. Take tij with our first and whichever of the center or d falls to the devils pick if they refuse to move Mercer. Otherwise we end up with Tij and Mercer. Everyone’s happy

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What if the take Helenius ahead of Tij because they think he's on par with Tij AND a centre.

Is the position the tie-breaker or the name on the back of the jersey?

I am confident that our scouts recognize that Tij is a better player then Helenius. Yes, Helenius is a C but he doesn't have a high impact player ceiling like Iginla imo.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

There are!?!?!

I think I get what he means - in every round, there is a centre available presumably who is his team’s first line option.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Who did the other prospects have around them to mentor and coach them? Your premise is that Tij had an advantage. How can you say that if you don't know who the others had?

They may have had someone good but its a 99% chance they weren't the caliber of Jarome Iginla.

The way you frame your responses with such open ended blanket suggestions that make someone feel incorrect for having any kind of opinion on the likelihood of something because there's always bound to be an exception is rather obnoxious.

It's a sign of a lack of charisma when you refuse to give credit on any points made and make a constructive discussion, but instead shift the perspective in whatever way makes the participant seem like they're going out on a limb because they haven't researched each and every individual case.

Hard to believe you were in media when you're this rigid and invalidating from your critical perch. Maybe provide some insight (if you have some on this current crop of players to counter with) instead of just dismissing everything like a doink?

It's that kind of posting style that detracts from good discussions.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I think I get what he means - in every round, there is a centre available presumably who is his team’s first line option.

If you mean his junior team - maybe? I dunno. But there are no drafts that have a first line NHL centre chosen from every round. First line centres are chosen in the first round and in each draft there's maybe one or two centres from other rounds that end up blossoming. But sometimes not even that (see 2013 as a random example).

Not too many teams boast a non first round top line centre. TB (if it's Point and not Stamkos). Nashville, but they are team mediocre. Buffalo with Thompson (but they traded Mittlestadt and still have Cozens). Carolina with Aho (but they also have Necas).

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

There are!?!?!

Expand your mind to include all draft years and you can find top players scattered amongst the draft.

As for your other question...in a tie break between positional need and pedigree, well the math says you go with pedigree.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I think I get what he means - in every round, there is a centre available presumably who is his team’s first line option.

But it ignores the fact that #1 centres are the hardest piece to get in the NHL, followed by #1 dmen.
"just draft one in the later rounds" is not a strategy.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Expand your mind to include all draft years and you can find top players scattered amongst the draft.

As for your other question...in a tie break between positional need and pedigree, well the math says you go with pedigree.

It's not about positional need it's about the premium of and scarcity of the positions.
Premium wingers are easier to find, and therefore less valuable than centres and D.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But it ignores the fact that #1 centres are the hardest piece to get in the NHL, followed by #1 dmen.
"just draft one in the later rounds" is not a strategy.

Never said it was - but they’re not going to be bad just this year.

They can take a centre in the first round again just as easily next year.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

They may have had someone good but its a 99% chance they weren't the caliber of Jarome Iginla.

The way you frame your responses with such open ended blanket suggestions that make someone feel incorrect for having any kind of opinion on the likelihood of something because there's always bound to be an exception is rather obnoxious.

It's a sign of a lack of charisma when you refuse to give credit on any points made and make a constructive discussion, but instead shift the perspective in whatever way makes the participant seem like they're going out on a limb because they haven't researched each and every individual case.

Hard to believe you were in media when you're this rigid and invalidating from your critical perch. Maybe provide some insight (if you have some on this current crop of players to counter with) instead of just dismissing everything like a doink?

It's that kind of posting style that detracts from good discussions.

As opposed to attacking someone personally including referencing their previous career?
I'm debating you on your poorly made points (such as a random fact that it's a 99% chance that the best prospects in the world didn't have coaching as good as Iginla junior)

Your response is to come after me personally.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Never said it was - but they’re not going to be bad just this year.

They can take a centre in the first round again just as easily next year.

The way I view it is they need top end D and C. And they should focus their next few high picks on those positions, and then fill out the wings.
Next year is tracking to be weak on D. This year is unusually strong. Certainly if there is a premium C available, that's always the preference, but if not you grab a D and then try to get a C next year.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But it ignores the fact that #1 centres are the hardest piece to get in the NHL, followed by #1 dmen.
"just draft one in the later rounds" is not a strategy.

Agree with your statement.

Even rarer are iginlas kids. He only has two boys. The way I look at it there is one player in our draft range with a HOF father, and the skill where there's a non zero chance they could be a star too.

That combination of factors, plus the fact this is entertainment, just take iggy and let's roll.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

They may have had someone good but its a 99% chance they weren't the caliber of Jarome Iginla.

The way you frame your responses with such open ended blanket suggestions that make someone feel incorrect for having any kind of opinion on the likelihood of something because there's always bound to be an exception is rather obnoxious.

It's a sign of a lack of charisma when you refuse to give credit on any points made and make a constructive discussion, but instead shift the perspective in whatever way makes the participant seem like they're going out on a limb because they haven't researched each and every individual case.

Hard to believe you were in media when you're this rigid and invalidating from your critical perch. Maybe provide some insight (if you have some on this current crop of players to counter with) instead of just dismissing everything like a doink?

It's that kind of posting style that detracts from good discussions.

This might be a good time for you to apply some self-reflection.

[fotze2]

I think Iginla is rising because he got the top notch development later than the rest. There is a reason a large number of nhlers are picking CSSHL.

At Rink he was on the ice 2 hours a day plus dry land with games mostly on weekends. Byron Richie is the skills coach. He definitely got in a better situation moving back to Winfield. I don’t even think Jarome would consider himself a great coach, but having him as is dad has absolute benefits. Notice how the Iggy boys Rink rosters only have 9 forwards opposed to the usual 11?