A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[photon]

I want more Arya competency porn.

[Yamer]

If they'e playing Littlefinger, then why would they have a private conversation like that? I don't think even Littlefinger's spies can see through walls.

Given everything that has happened to both characters and the development over the last 6 seasons it would be an incredible injustice to have Sansa and Arya revert back to petty sibling rivalry. That would be a big FU to storytelling in general, especially considering how rapid they want to push this on the viewers.

[Inglewood Jack]

the Stark sisters are basically the last survivors in the main branch of their family. Bran doesn't count because he's not Bran anymore, and Jon's going to be switching to a dragon sigil soon.

for a couple of highborn girls that have watched their family whittled down to the brink of extinction, legitimately threatening each other is the most unbelievable thing possible. it better be revealed that they are faking things, but then that just makes all their private scenes together dumb, unless they believed that Littlefinger had spy cameras installed in the bedrooms.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

the Stark sisters are basically the last survivors in the main branch of their family. Bran doesn't count because he's not Bran anymore, and Jon's going to be switching to a dragon sigil soon.

for a couple of highborn girls that have watched their family whittled down to the brink of extinction, legitimately threatening each other is the most unbelievable thing possible. it better be revealed that they are faking things, but then that just makes all their private scenes together dumb, unless they believed that Littlefinger had spy cameras installed in the bedrooms.

I don't think its that unbelievable at all. From our perspective of seeing both stories, sure we can see the intricacies, but from their eyes its a much different story.

Arya was 9 and watched her father beheaded while her sister sat at the side of the sadistic king who had threatened to stick her with a sword and had his bodyguard kill her friend and hunt her pet.

She ran and was forced to serve Tywin Lannister and hear about her family from that point of view. She arrived just in time to see her brother's body defiled and paraded by the allies of the Lannisters while her sister still sat in King's Landing enjoying the good life with the man behind her parents and brother's murder.

She goes and trains to be an assassin and while she may not have completely given up her identity as Arya, she definitely became a harder, more aloof person.

She makes it back to Winterfell and find Sansa in charge and already gets the feeling she is trying to out-maneouver Jon for control of the north. She will probably have some idea about how bad Ramsey was but still know Sansa was married to another person who betrayed her family.

With all the intrigue in the world, the constant betrayals and seeing Sansa as a Lady while everyone else fell around her has got to make Arya feel like she betrayed everything for her station.

A good long conversation between the two would clear everything up but it doesn't appear this has happened so I can totally see why Arya would be distrustful of Sansa. Arya just spent the last years of her life fighting for her life every second and from her point of view Sansa has played the Lady and lived the high life that whole time.

I am hoping it is a ruse against Littlefinger, but if it isn't I don't think it is unbelievable at all how she is acting.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by belsarius

A good long conversation between the two would clear everything up but it doesn't appear this has happened

Ahh the good old idiot plot.

I totally get what the writers are aiming for. All the stuff you described could make sense. I just don't think they've done a very good job of any of it. The character interactions don't seem to make sense because since there is no time for any plot development, we've been left to fill in the gaps and make huge logic leaps.

[Inglewood Jack]

well ok, let's say then that Arya really is that suspicious and willing to murder her sister over a lack of information that she's simply too lazy to look into further. what kind of master assassin outwardly threatens their mark with creepy monologues? at best you're freaking out a family member, at worst you've made an enemy of the scheming Lady of Winterfell that you think has traitorous tendencies. shouldn't an assassin aim to strike when, you know, they least expect it?

and what's Arya's plan after possibly killing Sansa? find a way to ride to King's Landing with the entire North hunting her down? or just wearing Sansa's face for the rest of her life?

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Ahh the good old idiot plot.

I totally get what the writers are aiming for. All the stuff you described could make sense. I just don't think they've done a very good job of any of it. The character interactions don't seem to make sense because since there is no time for any plot development, we've been left to fill in the gaps and make huge logic leaps.

I agree with you there. In the first few seasons they would have taken the time to build the plotline properly. Show the 2 minute scenes to build up the story and give believability to their actions. I thought there were shorter seasons because there wasn't much left to tell, but instead it is just to cut costs and place these holes.

I haven't been a fan of the storytelling aspect. I just don't think it's unbelievable to think they could be distrustful of each other. I am not giving the writers a pass, it is poor storytelling, but it isn't a far reach. It's the difference between GRRM writing and some average fantasy writer.

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

well ok, let's say then that Arya really is that suspicious and willing to murder her sister over a lack of information that she's simply too lazy to look into further. what kind of master assassin outwardly threatens their mark with creepy monologues? at best you're freaking out a family member, at worst you've made an enemy of the scheming Lady of Winterfell that you think has traitorous tendencies. shouldn't an assassin aim to strike when, you know, they least expect it?

and what's Arya's plan after possibly killing Sansa? find a way to ride to King's Landing with the entire North hunting her down? or just wearing Sansa's face for the rest of her life?

I don't think the plan is to kill her at all. She is searching for more information, at least they included enough tracking Littlefinger scenes in the montage to show that. His little stunt though really stoked the flames on her distrust of Sansa because it affirms her biased viewpoint. She fell for the fake news.

I do think she is intimidating Sansa and wants her to know that she is not the little girl that Sansa once knew. But she is also protecting Jon's interests and yeah if Sansa made a power-move to take over in his absence then Arya might react poorly, but for now it looks to be nothing more than intimidation. Because really for a third of her life she has known nothing but killing and betrayal, building trust again isn't as easy as meeting up again.

[Tinordi]

The more you think about the last episode the more you realize how frickin bad the series has become. Nothing made sense. It's just distilled idiotic fan service at this point.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The more you think about the last episode the more you realize how frickin bad the series has become. Nothing made sense. It's just distilled idiotic fan service at this point.

Then stop watching it, and stop posting here. We get it. You think they are idiots that have ruined the show. You have said it numerous times. You don't need to keep saying it.

[rbochan]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The more you think about the last episode the more you realize how frickin bad the series has become. Nothing made sense. It's just distilled idiotic fan service at this point.

You're more than welcome to stop watching it.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, I agree that the whole Sansa/Arya conflict is completely ridiculous.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, I agree that the whole Sansa/Arya conflict is completely ridiculous.

Depends on what it ends up being though, the resolution is everything. I'll admit Arya last week was not a fun character to watch and I hated the conflict between her and Sansa. But, anyway, we'll see how it goes.

And yes, Tinordi, can you kindly keep it to yourself. You don't like the series anymore.. well that's too bad but no one else cares, all you're doing is putting a spotlight on yourself and distracting from any actual talk about the show.

Either stop watching or stop posting here about it.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by JFK

Depends on what it ends up being though, the resolution is everything. I'll admit Arya last week was not a fun character to watch and I hated the conflict between her and Sansa. But, anyway, we'll see how it goes.

And yes, Tinordi, can you kindly keep it to yourself. You don't like the series anymore.. well that's too bad but no one else cares, all you're doing is putting a spotlight on yourself and distracting from any actual talk about the show.

Either stop watching or stop posting here about it.

I think people's main problem with the Arya/Sansa plot is it's not fan service. We want the sisters to run back together. They aren't, they still have the same underlying distrust and rivalry that they always had.

It's fan servicy to demand them to get along.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, I agree that the whole Sansa/Arya conflict is completely ridiculous.

Meh...

I think people forget how siblings actually act. They often have resentment towards each other and will make threatening comments. Following through is another matter though.

[automaton 3]

What bothers me about the Sansa-Arya interactions is that after all Arya's training, it feels a bit contrived that she can apparently be so easily manipulated by Littlefinger.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Is she though? I mean I guess the letter and original assumption, but she should have been able to tell what Sansa was saying was the truth and if she took it at true value she probably shouldn't hate Sansa. She might be a bit disappointed in her caving into the Lannisters, but realize she's not actively out to get the family. She was creepy and weird in her leaving, but I don't necessarily think that conversation ended poorly for their relationship in Arya's view.

I'm more wondering what Sansa has up her sleeve with Brienne leaving.

[automaton 3]

Yeah I really hope that there is more to that. I suppose part and parcel of shortening this season is that it is moving very quickly and leaving gaps.

[RatherDashing]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Is she though? I mean I guess the letter and original assumption, but she should have been able to tell what Sansa was saying was the truth and if she took it at true value she probably shouldn't hate Sansa. She might be a bit disappointed in her caving into the Lannisters, but realize she's not actively out to get the family. She was creepy and weird in her leaving, but I don't necessarily think that conversation ended poorly for their relationship in Arya's view.

I'm more wondering what Sansa has up her sleeve with Brienne leaving.

Was it the truth though? I think Arya figured out the Sansa isn't 100% behind Jon. Maybe the Arya-Sansa conflict is supposed to mirror Sansa's internal conflict, which is being fueled by Littlefinger telling her that she should be ruling the North.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

What bothers me about the Sansa-Arya interactions is that after all Arya's training, it feels a bit contrived that she can apparently be so easily manipulated by Littlefinger.

Arya's issue during training was always that she couldn't put aside her old beefs and no amount of training seemed to be able to change this part of her personality.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

What bothers me about the Sansa-Arya interactions is that after all Arya's training, it feels a bit contrived that she can apparently be so easily manipulated by Littlefinger.

Its the juxtaposition of sisters. Arya's training has been largely physical whereas Sansa's experiences have been largely mental/political.

Arya's a fighter, she sees conflict in the forms of good or evil, Sansa's the politician, she understands conflict in terms of men, materiel and political manipulation for power.

Arya is woefully unequipped to deal with someone of Littlefinger's skills and caliber whereas Sansa could go toe-to-toe, similarly Sansa wouldnt last two seconds in a fight against Brienne whereas Arya could hold her own.